Growing into middle and old age is a gradual process that occurs over the course of many years. Youth burns bright and fades slowly. Those youngest years depart at a churning pace, relentless and constant.
But our perspective of the transition is not aligned with that gradual piece. Us humans tend to understand things in a much more staccato way. We're prone to epiphanies and sudden realizations.
And few epiphanies feel more significant than the discovery that middle or old age has arrived. Though the evidence often comes along during a day's most mundane moments, the conclusion feels grand. After all, this is mortality we're talking about here.
A recent Reddit thread encouraged folks to recall a time that a minor occurrence tipped them off to the harsh truth: they were getting older.
LollipopDreamscape asked, "What was the moment where you thought, 'I'm getting old?' "
Middle Aged Inception
"I had a dream the other day about being in high school again, then I woke up and realized I was 28. Then it dawned on me that I'm actually 38..." -- dick-nipples
"Same. These last 10 years might as well have been a year." -- PhoneJazz
"I still have recurring college dreams when I'm stressed. I'll be 41 in less than a month." -- Happy_Fun_Balll
"It's like your subconscious is trying to hurt you lol" -- Tutuformypoopoo
"Don't Screw This Up, Kid"
"When I was older than my doctor." -- Panda-Head
"My grandmom described her doctor being lovely young man. My aunt told us he was actually in his mid 60's." -- fantsukissa
"That one hurts. When I moved I had to find a new GP, and I swear she looks like she's a teenager." -- FormalMango
New Priorities
"My wife and I went to a party, we brought guacamole. We left the party and forgot the bowl."
"My wife and I talked the next two days about how we need the bowl back and when we finally coordinated with the other couple and got our bowl back we were extremely happy."
-- 11BINF
Health Takes a Front Seat
"My wife and I had a 20-minute long discussion about fiber. That was it. We were officially old right then." -- kayser3373
"Literally was just talking about fiber not 15 minutes ago." -- siegewolf
"I will talk about fiber to anyone who will listen. Even better if they share my fibrous passion. It's so great for you and I long for the day when it's added to foods like protein is." -- TheOpus
Out of the Loop
"I have no idea what's happening in music right now. And I don't mean that in a lewronggeneration, 'back in my day!' Kind if way."
"I mean that I literally have no idea what is happening. I used to be so plugged in. I knew all the coolest bands and went to all the best shows. I was giving recommendations to people, I was making mix cds, it was my dream job to be a music supervisor for tv."
"Now...I don't know anything any more. I try, but it's overwhelming."
Safety First!
"I was driving and saw a very attractive younger guy running shirtless on the sidewalk. My immediate thought was 'OMG dude! I hope you wore enough sunscreen today!' " -- LadyBatman
"Similar, but I saw a guy in the parking lot of the grocery store and thought DAYUM....he was 55 at least and all grey." -- icamom
"Or when you watch college sports and think to yourself 'he's hot!' And then hope to God he's over 18." -- IHateRicotta
The Brutal Calendar
"When the new person I was training at work told me she was born in 2002." -- FormalMango
" 'Where were you on 9/11?'...'Not born yet.' Fuuuu**..." -- DeathSpiral321
"I was doing urban exploring and bumped into some teens. They asked me when was the first time I visited this location. I answered. It was the year they were born." -- I_love_pillows
PAIN ALWAYS
"When everything started hurting all the time. Get up from sitting down, back pain. getting up in the morning, full body pain. Do any type of exercise, excruciating pain for multiple days."
"Started taking ibuprofen like motha f***in tic tacs"
-- hireds87
Tis the Season for Utility
"One year I didn't get any socks for Christmas and was disappointed" -- Urethra_tormentor
"For me it was when I realized I was more excited about how Christmas was a day to sleep in rather than about getting gifts. Now that I have a (soon to be) 4 year old, I'm going to have to go back to getting up early once she grasps the concept of Christmas Morning." -- Dimonah
When Sleeping Becomes Strenuous
"When I couldn't sleep without hurting something on me. Currently stuck awake because I hurt my shoulder sleeping." -- applejackrr
"Sleep on the floor for a few days" -- xxrambo45xx
"And then, as you're lying awake, you start thinking about how the same injury used to be better the next day, and now it takes three days and some pain killers to start to get back to 'normal.' " -- markscourtney
A Place Where You Belong
"Went back to my university town for a wedding. Group of friends went to the club we all used to go, left in shock 5min later because everyone there looked about 12 years old."
"Ended up going to the 'oldies pub' instead."
-- Taylor_made2
Pop Cultural Differences
"Not one moment. But anytime I hear a song I grew up with played on a oldies or classic station" -- cantfindmykeys
"When you bring up events, actors, music or shows that everyone knows about, and discover that no one knows what you are taking about" -- feral_philosopher
"Or reading about current celebrities and having no clue who any of them are or what they do." -- darkbee83
Not So Fast
"I tried to skip steps on the stairs. Brain was totally unaware legs couldn't do it. Ate sh**." -- wouldja916
"oooofffff" -- Useless_bumbling_oaf
"But did people laugh or help? That is the real sign." -- announcerkitty
Gotta Get That Value
"Reading reviews on Amazon for lightbulbs" -- greenbean1969
"That's pretty bright of you." -- Thinks_Like_A_Man
"Daaaaadddd" -- Phoenie81
Spanning Multiple Eras
"When I saw three rookies start playing in Major League baseball and realized that I saw all their fathers play as well." -- loosethegales
"Same with hockey now. Every time the World Juniors are on or you follow the draft and you remember having their dads on your fantasy team not too long ago." -- LetsTalkDinosaurs
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There's something seeing a person litter that drives me up the wall. I remember being a kid and being explicitly told to hold on to my trash and not just throw it in the street. As a kid, I distinctly remember being made fun of for not just throwing the bag of chips I'd just eaten or an empty soda bottle into the gutter.
I can't imagine doing that. Why?! We truly treat this planet as if we have somewhere else to go.
After Redditor pnrddt asked the online community, "What small action immediately makes you dislike a stranger?" people shared their observations.
"Playing music..."
<p>Playing music or having a 'private' conversation via speaker phone in a public place.</p><p><a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/ktpb6p/what_small_action_immediately_makes_you_dislike_a/ginci58?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3" target="_blank">LLCoolBrap</a></p>"When they exhibit..."
<p><strong></strong>When they exhibit a personality trait that I also have, and don't like about myself. Every time I find myself being dismissive or judgemental of somebody, it's just my own insecurity.</p><p><a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/ktpb6p/what_small_action_immediately_makes_you_dislike_a/ginn0g5?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3"></a><a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/ktpb6p/what_small_action_immediately_makes_you_dislike_a/ginn0g5?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3" target="_blank">iotangle42</a></p>"When I'm talking..."
<p>When I'm talking and they are not listening. Like they are not even trying to pretend that they are listening.</p><p><a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/ktpb6p/what_small_action_immediately_makes_you_dislike_a/gincjto?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3" target="_blank">eat-the-rich-07</a></p>"Because one of these days..."
<p>A person can treat me like a princess but as soon as I see them mistreating either animals or people, I am out of there. Because one of these days, you'll be on that receiving end.</p><p><a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/ktpb6p/what_small_action_immediately_makes_you_dislike_a/ginpr97?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3" target="_blank">starlightradio</a></p>"It just screams..."
<p>Telling people to smile. It just screams condescending and a lack of emotional intelligence.</p><p><a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/ktpb6p/what_small_action_immediately_makes_you_dislike_a/ginovsj?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3"></a><a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/ktpb6p/what_small_action_immediately_makes_you_dislike_a/ginovsj?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3" target="_blank">3FoolsinaTrenchcoat</a></p>"When I hear that..."
<p>Grown ups using "baby talk" to try to get what they want. I'm not talking about when people goo-goo at babies, but when they use a silly whiney voice to try to persuade people or make people do them a favour.</p><p>"Aww, pwease hewp me wiv dis wittle pwoject."</p><p>When I hear that I instantly lose respect for that person, be it a stranger or someone I know.</p><p>Pet peeve.</p><p><a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/ktpb6p/what_small_action_immediately_makes_you_dislike_a/ginbwb4?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3" target="_blank">handsahwill</a></p>"Okay, we get it..."
<p>One-upping people. "Yeah, that's pretty good, but one time I..." Okay, we get it, your life is more amazing than everyone else's.</p><p><a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/ktpb6p/what_small_action_immediately_makes_you_dislike_a/ginhrkd?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3" target="_blank">well-uh-yeah</a></p>"When out driving..."
<p><strong></strong><strong></strong>When out driving, someone who pulls out in front of you, then proceeds to go 5-10+ mph under the speed limit.</p><p><a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/ktpb6p/what_small_action_immediately_makes_you_dislike_a/gingjuj?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3"></a><a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/ktpb6p/what_small_action_immediately_makes_you_dislike_a/gingjuj?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3" target="_blank">FuzzMcBeefy84</a></p>"If you don't..."
<p>Talking negatively about anyone who's just trying to have a good time in a fun setting. If you don't have nice to say shut the hell up.</p><p><span></span><a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/ktpb6p/what_small_action_immediately_makes_you_dislike_a/gio4vf5?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3" target="_blank">intergLACTIC</a></p>"When people..."
<p>When people put other people down to try and make themselves look better. "Oh I'm just playing around with them we're friends." I don't care quit being an @ss you know what you're doing and you should be able to tell you're making them feel bad.</p><p><span></span><a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/ktpb6p/what_small_action_immediately_makes_you_dislike_a/gio9p3c?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3" target="_blank">inf303</a></p>"If it's into a drain..."
<p>Spitting on the pavement.</p><p>If it's into a drain, that's fair enough, sometimes you get phlegm and you need to get rid of it. Going for a drain shows you're at least considerate of other, imo. But on the floor where anyone can step in it (or if you're in a wheelchair, get it all over your hands from pushing the wheels) is just gross.</p><p><a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/ktpb6p/what_small_action_immediately_makes_you_dislike_a/ginojq3?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3" target="_blank">ghostmadlittlemiss</a></p>When you're in the market for a slew of very specific facts that all fall under the same general theme, the internet really delivers.
Forget streamlined public health capabilities and revolutionized human communication, the true beauty of the internet is all the random, barely useful information you can find when a bunch odd people decide to assemble and swap info.
Homemade TarantulaÂ
<p>"Dental student here. Black hairy tongue is a common condition and it's exactly what it sounds like." </p><p>"It's just caused by buildup of dead skin that becomes hair like because of tobacco use or antibiotic use. Usually combined with lack of frictional forces from brushing"</p><p>-- <a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/kum69x/doctors_of_reddit_whats_the_weirdestgrossest_fact/giu9tdq?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3" target="_blank">Alarm-Potential</a></p>Load Em UpÂ
<p>"When a patient gets a kidney transplant, they usually leave the old 2 behind unless there's a significant problem with them."</p><p>"The extra kidney is just tucked in the peritoneum leaving the patient with 3 kidneys."</p><p>-- <a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/kum69x/doctors_of_reddit_whats_the_weirdestgrossest_fact/giu6qjd?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3" target="_blank">MedicalJargon-itis</a></p>Come On Mutations!
<p>"Every single melanocyte on your skin (you know, the ones that give your hairs color, and your skin its skin color) is connected to your sympathetic nervous system via modified synapses."</p><p>"No-one knows why they're connected that way - but we do know that under stress, those nerves nuke the pool of stem cells that create hair pigment, which is why it makes you go grey."</p><p>"A few mutations and you could theoretically be able to control them and change color like a chameleon."</p><p>"So in many ways, we're basically walking cuttlefish."</p><p>-- <a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/kum69x/doctors_of_reddit_whats_the_weirdestgrossest_fact/giuyo29?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3" target="_blank">PavlovaPalava</a></p>Play the Long Game, PeopleÂ
<p>"Humans can outpace any animal on the planet."</p><p>"No, we're not the fastest, but if we were chasing the fastest animal (cheetah) we would catch it and be able to keep going."</p><p>-- <a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/kum69x/doctors_of_reddit_whats_the_weirdestgrossest_fact/gisujdr?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3" target="_blank">Bout3Fidy</a></p>Little Helpful CrittersÂ
<p>"There are little microscopic organisms living in your eyebrows, eating away at the dead skin."</p><p>"Don't freak out, they are very helpful and completely harmless, just a little gross"</p><p>-- <a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/kum69x/doctors_of_reddit_whats_the_weirdestgrossest_fact/giud33u?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3" target="_blank">Vid-Me-BossCheesburg</a></p>Thankfully That Filter is a Pretty Good OneÂ
<p>"Saliva is filtered blood. Your tears are too. And if you're too stressed out you can cry blood."</p><p>-- <a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/kum69x/doctors_of_reddit_whats_the_weirdestgrossest_fact/gitshe5?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3" target="_blank">mylifeisathrowaway10</a></p>Imagine It All in a BottleÂ
<p>"I know that the average human churns out between 1 and 2 liters of saliva every day.... oh and we have parasites who are embedded in our hair follicles, and they eat away at our skin, thus causing Dandruff :,)"</p><p>-- <a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/kum69x/doctors_of_reddit_whats_the_weirdestgrossest_fact/gisrxcc?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3" target="_blank">Throwawayyy123451</a></p>So HotÂ
<p>"Humans give off so much body heat that in 30 min we can boil a gallon of water" -- <a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/kum69x/doctors_of_reddit_whats_the_weirdestgrossest_fact/giu1ngt?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3" target="_blank">Financial-Ad-6050</a><a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/kum69x/doctors_of_reddit_whats_the_weirdestgrossest_fact/giu1ngt?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3"></a></p><p style="margin-left: 20px;">"Rookie numbers" -- <a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/kum69x/doctors_of_reddit_whats_the_weirdestgrossest_fact/giuvqqt?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3" target="_blank">nopenothappening</a></p><p style="margin-left: 20px;">"Pshh I can get a gallon of water boiling in like 10 minutes tops" -- <a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/kum69x/doctors_of_reddit_whats_the_weirdestgrossest_fact/giuhji3?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3" target="_blank">ridiculouslygay</a></p>Oh DearÂ
<p>"Old ladies often have prolapse of their pelvic organs. This means their vaginal walls got so weak that it can no longer support their bladder or uterus."</p><p> -Nurse practitioner"</p><p>-- <a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/kum69x/doctors_of_reddit_whats_the_weirdestgrossest_fact/gitopxb?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3" target="_blank">vespertinas</a></p>Working in a doctor's office means helping people when they're at their lowest. Sometimes, that leads to wonderful moments when the patient is thankful for all the advice and care you provided. Other times, it means taking something out of someone's bum.
Turns out, that second one happens a lot more than you might think.
For Fashion And Protection
<img lazy-loadable="true" src="https://assets.rebelmouse.io/eyJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiIsInR5cCI6IkpXVCJ9.eyJpbWFnZSI6Imh0dHBzOi8vYXNzZXRzLnJibC5tcy8yNTQ1MDMwOC9vcmlnaW4uZ2lmIiwiZXhwaXJlc19hdCI6MTY1MjkwNTU2OX0.6D-LIQ26JXH0-7OtPpG93HOtt41wAv62bGHMVvuAYpk/img.gif?width=980" id="7ff06" class="rm-shortcode" data-rm-shortcode-id="6109fb5baf04f17deade8b58695881d1" data-rm-shortcode-name="rebelmouse-image" />wound up season 3 GIFGiphy<p>I had a patient come in with lacerations to her fingers. Her blender got clogged and she stuck her hand inside to clear it. She cleared it and the blender resumed....um blending. Luckily, she had long acrylic nails. This helped lessen the impact.</p><p><a target="_blank" href="https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/kuld31/er_doctors_and_nurses_of_reddit_what_is_the/gitz5l4?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3">Bornagainchola</a></p>I'd Rather Go To Sleep
<p>Guy came in after being concerned the bed sheet had stuck to his lower leg. Turns out hed been using a petrol mower the evening before and it had exploded. Full thickness burn to his calf. No pain. He wanted to go home to feed his cows instead of being transferred to burns and plastics. Man it looked like white leather.</p><p><a target="_blank" href="https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/kuld31/er_doctors_and_nurses_of_reddit_what_is_the/gitkqf9?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3">DamaskRoses</a></p>Why Play Typical Catch?
<p>Guy was camping with his frat buddies and they were firing air rifles at each other with a baseball glove on.</p><p>The pellet was lodged well into his hand. Like, how did you think this was going to end?</p><p><a target="_blank" href="https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/kuld31/er_doctors_and_nurses_of_reddit_what_is_the/gitq7lt?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3">Milesofstyle</a></p>Close Eyes Off From The World
<p>I was in the ER as a patient next to a guy who was brought in via ambulance because he super glued his eye lids shut.</p><p>He was high as a kite, but so was I from the pain meds I'd been given for my own injury. Whatever meds I was given made me think everything was hilarious. I got yelled at by the nurses for laughing hysterically in the next room. He was being a pain in the a--, ER was on diversion already, and they were not amused.</p><p><a target="_blank" href="https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/kuld31/er_doctors_and_nurses_of_reddit_what_is_the/githxnc?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3">brubarbal</a></p>That's Why It's Called A "Dog" Toy
<p>A few stand out. Person somehow swallowed a spiked dog toy.</p><p>Someone tried to reverse his circumcision by cutting more of his d-ck off with a pair of scissors.</p><p>About every object known to man up the bum. 🎵 if you like it then you shoulda put a string on it." 🎵</p><p><a target="_blank" href="https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/kuld31/er_doctors_and_nurses_of_reddit_what_is_the/gitnt24?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3">bsn2fnp1</a></p>Yeah, But, How?
<img lazy-loadable="true" src="https://assets.rebelmouse.io/eyJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiIsInR5cCI6IkpXVCJ9.eyJpbWFnZSI6Imh0dHBzOi8vYXNzZXRzLnJibC5tcy8yNTQ1MDMxMi9vcmlnaW4uZ2lmIiwiZXhwaXJlc19hdCI6MTY0MjAyNTM0OX0.Esaobyl7Yq7QltSxli0ZwjggE7j8A4gu0uNRnn1ZwUc/img.gif?width=980" id="95a28" class="rm-shortcode" data-rm-shortcode-id="f4eb7f0131c0d79db2de93fd2bbdc0af" data-rm-shortcode-name="rebelmouse-image" />homer simpson GIFGiphy<p>I've seen an internal vaginal laceration from someone climbing a fence while trying to see something happening down the street.</p><p><a target="_blank" href="https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/kuld31/er_doctors_and_nurses_of_reddit_what_is_the/giss2id?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3">midturbinate</a></p>Again With The Butt...
<p>ER Nurse here</p><p>-We had a girl come in and who knows what she was doing but she had one of the thin glow sticks in her bladder, maybe some fun finger/glow play during a concert? I don't know but pretty wild.</p><ul><li>Also I had a Spanish speaking only gentleman explain why a shoe polish bottle was in his bum, we had to use a video interpreter due to the language barrier but it's was pretty wild to hear the interpreter say "I have a bottle of polish in my anus" after expecting him to just explain why he had belly pain. We also proceeded to print out multiple pictures of common types of shoe polish he used to ask him if it was "this one or that one". It was hilarious when he identified what one it was based on the picture, he had to go to the OR</li></ul><div><a target="_blank" href="https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/kuld31/er_doctors_and_nurses_of_reddit_what_is_the/gitqmlm?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3">AirFryersRule</a><a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/kuld31/er_doctors_and_nurses_of_reddit_what_is_the/gitqmlm?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3" target="_blank"></a></div>Sounds Like A College Guy Thing To Do
<p>Had a university student who ignited a firework in his anus while drunk for the amusement of his buddies. It exploded, causing full thickness burns of his rectum, resulting in him needing a colostomy</p><p><a target="_blank" href="https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/kuld31/er_doctors_and_nurses_of_reddit_what_is_the/giss6l1?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3">ArcofRiolan</a></p>Wow...
<img lazy-loadable="true" src="https://assets.rebelmouse.io/eyJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiIsInR5cCI6IkpXVCJ9.eyJpbWFnZSI6Imh0dHBzOi8vYXNzZXRzLnJibC5tcy8yNTQ1MDI4OC9vcmlnaW4uZ2lmIiwiZXhwaXJlc19hdCI6MTYzMDMyMzMyMn0.b42VhIpJrAsaFR19Cf55ZVkWnby5yTIrMhI73HVAImk/img.gif?width=980" id="3ccdf" class="rm-shortcode" data-rm-shortcode-id="50847094a4e17c16febbb35d2146f14f" data-rm-shortcode-name="rebelmouse-image" />scared homer simpson GIFGiphy<p>Operating theatre - this woman came in with a frozen chicken stuck inside her lady parts. Apparently she had a habit of buying them, inserting them and then pulling them out, as she really had a thing for going through childbirth, but on this occasion, she hadn't allowed time for it to defrost properly /adequately.</p><p><a href="https://www.reddit.com/user/Mike_OxonFaier/" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">Mike_OxonFaier</a></p><p><em>Want to "know" more? Never miss another big, odd, funny, or heartbreaking moment again. Sign up for the Knowable newsletter <a href="https://mailchi.mp/knowable/knowable-newsletter-in-content" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">here</a>. </em></p>I love movies. The cinema has long been a savior of mine and has given me some of my greatest inspirations. But being an avid film watcher has also made me quite the critic. I can always tell when a movie is worth the money to see in theaters or wait until it's on basic cable with commercials. The signs of mediocrity abound, and sometimes they aren't that difficult to spot.
Redditor u/fjv08kl wanted to know what is obvious about mediocre cinema by asking.... What are some subtle 'red flags' that tell you a movie is not worth watching?