Woman's Grandma Passes Away And Clingy GF's Need For Constant Communication Created Major Problems, And Now She's Not Sure How To Proceed
I mean. There's not much to say. If somebody's dead grandmother is an emotional threat, is it even worth having a fight?
u/sici24 laid out the crazy issue for us:
My grandma died and I feel like my girlfriend's behaviour towards me and my family was out of line [28/29F 2 year relationship]
Hi Reddit. Sorry this is all over the place. I'm pretty tired and upset, and am having a hard time getting my thoughts together..but here it goes.
My grandma (dad's mom) and I didn't have the greatest relationship. Basically my dad's family was super crazy rich and my mom's family is like upper middle class. So my grandma wasn't super thrilled with the marriage. She treats my mom differently than her other daughter/son in laws and this kind of trickled down to me and my brother being treated differently than our cousins.
My grandma wasn't outright mean to us, but it was kind of obvious she had favourites in the way that she didn't give us as good gifts as the other grandkids, she never bragged about our accomplishments to her friends, she'd tell me that I could lose some weight, etc. But I mean… she did still give us gifts, cook our favourite foods when she came to visit, came to our graduations, lots of hugs and kisses..so I feel like she did love us. She was also an old Asian lady, so some of her actions can be attributed to just her being of her generation. I guess it doesn't matter now, bottom line – I had things to complain about but in the end I do love my grandma.
My grandma was in the hospital and my dad knew that she was not doing so well, so he asked me to fly out to my hometown and see her. All of my cousins, aunts and uncles came as well and we had a really lovely family reunion (I am super close to my extended family, but we all live in different states in the US/provinces in Canada so we don't see each other much but it's always awesome when we do) and my grandma was so happy. My girlfriend and I already had plane tickets to visit my parents, so we actually ended up going back to hometown a couple of weeks after that. Grandma was still in the hospital and my girlfriend met her for the first time. She died about a week after we left and I flew out again to go to the funeral and wake. So I went there 3 times (twice alone, once with my gf) and each time I was just…not impressed with my girlfriend's actions
This was a last minute flight and was pretty expensive, so my girlfriend decided not to come with me. Also we thought it wouldn't be the best situation for her to meet my family for the first time. I was only gone for the weekend (left Friday night, came back Sunday afternoon) and my girlfriend was insistent that I text constantly, call her every night, Skype every morning. I tried my best to text her, but I didn't really want to be on my phone the entire time I was at the hospital visiting my grandma and also catching up with family I hadn't seen in a couple of years. It was evening and my phone was nearly dead. My grandma was asleep, so my brother and cousins and I decided to drive to the mall/grocery store. My girlfriend got so angry at me because I didn't call her at the hospital, I didn't call her while I was in the car (with 7 other people), my phone died and I didn't borrow someone else's phone to call her at the mall, etc. She then also kind of got mad at me for taking the opportunity while my grandma was asleep to have a good time with my cousins instead of calling/video chatting her. I skyped her the next morning and she was still livid and accused me of doing something that I would never do and was actually really insulting. Anyway I went back home the next day and she was still mad at me.
This visit was planned before my grandma got sick and my gf met my extended family for the first time. She hated every second of it. My cousins tried to include her by asking what food she'd like to eat so we could pick a restaurant and she just said that we (she and I) would go back to my parents house and eat there (there was no food, we ate cereal for dinner). When we were alone, she'd get mad at me for having fun, laughing, and singing with my cousins. She was sulky the entire time and at one point was in such a bad mood around my family that she said that when we got back home we were breaking up. It then de-escalated to we are never going to a family reunion type thing ever again. She would text her sister about how weird/creepy/embarrassing my family was and when my aunt and uncle celebrated their wedding anniversary, she insisted that we skip the lunch celebration and drive downtown instead.
A few days after we got home from the 2nd visit, my dad called me to tell me that my grandma had passed away that morning and if I could make it home that weekend for the funeral and wake and that my girlfriend was invited too, of course. She couldn't take more time off work and also couldn't afford the plane ticket, so I went by myself. My girlfriend never outright said I couldn't go, but it was obvious that she didn't want me to ditch her again. She said things like "You didn't even like your grandma that much why do you have to go to the funeral AND the wake". But screw that, even if I didn't like my grandma I would still want to be there for my dad and the rest of my family. At the funeral home (for the wake), I was texting her a bit and taking pictures of some of my grandma's stuff. I was also chatting with my cousins and my brother. We decided to go into the chapel (I didn't really have signal in here) and I saw my aunt really crying and sobbing and I went to go give her a hug. The wake then started and I took a seat at a pew for the mass and other things. It lasted about 1 ½ hours, and when I got out, I received a ton of messages that my gf had sent that I couldn't receive in the chapel. Basically she was mad at me for not texting her good night immediately before the wake started. I told her that I was in a chapel, so I didn't really have the chance to text her. She said that it only takes a few seconds to text "good night" so I should have taken my phone out during the church service and texted. But honestly…texting her good night was not the most important thing on my mind during my grandma's wake.
The next day was the funeral. I was telling my girlfriend that the shoes I had brought were dirty so I had to borrow my mom's shoes with heels. She then texted me "Wow, the image of you in heels is such a turn-off". Wtf I wasn't telling her that I was wearing heels to turn her on, I was just telling her something about my day. After the funeral, my cousins and I decided to go play a game of basketball. I called my girlfriend to talk to her and when she heard the sounds of the game in the background she got angry and accused me of "having fun". Am I not allowed to have fun? My grandma was super into family and loved having everyone together, so us playing a fun game of basketball would probably be exactly what she had wanted us to do.
This has gotten really long now. So I'll just end it here. What I need help from you guys is..did I do something wrong? Maybe my judgement is all clouded because my grandma died, I spent so much time with family, I had to fly back and forth across the country three times in a month. Am I completely missing my gf's side of the story? I honestly don't know what to think, but I know that I feel like crap.
TL;DR: My girlfriend gets mad at me for having fun with my cousins, she hates my family, got incredibly angry at me for picking my grandma's funeral over texting her.
Here was some of the advice he got.
Sounds like you're better off breaking up.
No respect whatsoever from your girlfriend. Especially when your grandma is sick and at her funeral. I'm so upset reading this. This is absolutely wrong.
Aside from the gold-digging potential you mentioned in one comment, the biggest issue I see for your future as a couple if that your gf doesn't have the same family values you do. It is clear she has no intention of being an integral part of the family that you love and are very close to. That on its own is a big deal breaker.
Your gf comes off as super controlling and doesn't seem interested in getting to know your family at all. The fact that she was angry at you for going to your grandma's funeral is a big red flag IMO and she doesn't seem to trust you at all. Do you ever feel like she's trying to keep you away from from family and friends?
She's an insensitive controlling brat and possibly a gold digger. A death in the family is when your partner is supposed to be at their most supportive and caring, not all this nonsense (texting her sister sh*t about your family? telling you it's a turn off imagining you in heels? what the f*ck??). So many red flags. You can do much better.
My grandmother died a few years ago. My boyfriend comforted me through the news (it was shocking, it came out of nowhere). He listened to me when I wanted to tell stories about her, he was distracting when I told him he needed a distraction. When it was the day of the funeral, he put on a black suit, rented a car, and drove me, my dad, and my cousins to the funeral. It was his first time meeting my extended family and he was polite and gregarious with them. We went out for a big meal after the service and everyone who had just met him pulled me aside to tell me how much they loved him.
I'm telling this story not to brag, but to show how a partner should treat you during a time of mourning. I've gone to friends parents funerals that were 90% in foreign languages and sat quietly and reflected and was there for my friends afterwards. Do you really want to be around someone you can't trust to be there for you when you most need them?
Maybe this is your grandmas last gift to you, showing how untrustworthy, unreliable, and selfish your girlfriend is.
Your girlfriend is on another planet. You had every right to go to your grandmas the times you did go prior to her death, and yes what's wrong with having fun? Nothing. You should have been at the funeral, that was your grandma. Your girlfriend is insecure, untrustworthy, childish, unsympathetic, and a nag. Why would you want to spend the rest of your young life with her? You could do so much better. Good luck.
A romantic partner is supposed to be a comfort and source of support during hard times, not the cause of additional stress. This woman seems controlling and like she's trying to alienate you from your family. Add in her alarming interest in your inheritance and her general surliness and insistence that every aspect of her life focus on you, and she's just comes across as an overall drain on your life.
Being single is infinitely preferable to having a "partner" like this one.
Listen. I was in a relationship with a girl JUST like this a few years ago, like what you're describing I almost wondered if it's the same girl. It's gonna be hard to break up, but it is the best thing for you to do. She had turned me against my family, and it took me finally seeing the abusive behavior for myself to stand up and break up with her. When I told her I didn't want to be together anymore, she initially acted very sweet and loving, but when I didn't budge, she actually admitted to cheating on me when I was out of town (which is when she would accuse me of cheating) and said some very hurtful things about me and my family. She showed her true colors, and I'm glad she did, it made it all the easier to forget about her and find the right one for me.
So - what's the question here? I know you're asking if you did something wrong, but you already know you didn't. Each one of your examples are riddled with poor behaviors demonstrated by your girlfriend (clingy, controlling, manipulative).
I gotta ask: Where's the good? Why are you with her? Personally, there's nothing she could do that would justify putting up with this bologna.
I really hope you realize that she's no good for you, and you totally deserve better - and when that happens, give us an update. I wanna know what happens.
We're not getting your girlfriend's side of the story, we're getting yours though. I don't know if there's anything your girlfriend could tell me about her side of the story that would lead me to say "Hey wow no I get it, you were totally in the right, u/sici24 needs to get her sh*t together."
Like no matter what, how she behaved during those three visits is not okay. She can have valid reasons for doing so (being in a bad mood, feeling uncomfortable, feeling anxious, missing you, insecurities) but that doesn't EXCUSE what she did or make how she acted okay. At the very least, she needs to work on how she communicates with you and she has to take into account where you're at and put herself aside from a little bit. That's some personal work that SHE needs to do, and maybe there are some changes you can make to help with that, but this is more or less about her.
But like I already said in a different comment, I don't even think it's worth it. This seems like a repeating pattern with her and I've been in relationships where I felt exactly how you feel now--that it was always, always my fault but then when I think about it later, I realize that even if it WAS my fault, I still wouldn't have reacted the way that my partner did. It was only after those relationships actually ended that I realized how f*cked up and toxic they were. It takes a LOT of work for a person to change that deeply, and I'm not saying it's impossible, but I AM saying that your girlfriend needs to be willing to put that work in and also willing to own her part instead of making everything your fault.
You need to figure out if you're happy with her and if you actually want to try to make this work, but based on my own history, I really want you to dump her on her f*cking a** and move onto someone who isn't going to be up your a** yelling at you because you were spending too much time with your family after your grandmother died. Give me a break.
it sounds like ur gf believes that u only live for her pleasure and benefit. u can't have ur own life and enjoy anything that doesn't include her or benefit her in any way. Hence, why she is so interested in ur inheritance. if i were u, i would never let her see a cent, and break up with her. she is a garbage human being.
At first I was thinking, "okay maybe she's young and a little immature." I had to look at the ages again and she's past the age where it's acceptable to behave in this manner.
A kind and loving partner would be supportive of you if they're with you AND supportive if they were unable to come along. You are there for a funeral, not for some random shindig. It would be reasonable to assume you aren't going to respond right away.
Does she have a job or a life? My god, what you describe sounds absolutely exhausting. I was with someone like that and it drained the life out of me. After I didn't have anything left to give, I grew a spine and told them I deserved a hell of a lot better than how they were treating me and they knew it.
It's easy to say, "dump them" but I'm on the train with other commenters. Your gf isn't going to change, is super selfish and childish (and mention of some gold-digging tendencies). You deserve a partner in life, not a spoiled teenager who throws tantrums when they don't get 500% of your attention.
Good luck OP.
I'm sorry for your loss. Your gf is incredibly selfish and jealous of the connection you have with your family. She is definitely controlling and this is only going to escalate. You have not done anything wrong, her behavior is completely out of line.
I think you need to reflect on whether you want to continue a relationship with her. She showed you her true colors in your time of sorrow and it's not pretty.
My boyfriend (Now husband) lost his grandma when we'd been together for two months. I stayed for a week (teacher, summer holidays) to clean his mum's house and get groceries and stuff so she could grieve and make arrangements. I then held his hand, and at times his brothers', through the funeral and wake.
I say this not to boast, but merely to point out the actions of a decent human being (or at least someone who tries to be.) This is a big, big red flag that shows she gives not a crap about your feelings.
I'm sorry for the loss of both your grandma and this relationship. You deserve better.
This is the best set of red flags possible. You lose no money, you have no children, you're not legally entwined in any way. Get out while the getting is good because this kind of selfishness does not improve with age.
I've live it. The coldness, the unprovoked resentment, the hyperinflated insecurity. Don't. Ever. be made to feel bad by a partner for having a relationship with your family, let alone for simply being happy [or sad or anything] from something that is not totally derived from this childish brat. It's completely unacceptable. I know I am coming off as overly passionate about this, maybe I am, but this was my life for a lot of years and nothing good came of it. I'm not suggesting what to do, I'll leave the power of your decision making to you.. because you are a strong and confident person.. and don't let anyone else tell you otherwise. Your value as a person does not begin and end with this person's skewed sense of reality, relationship/marriage/occupation/whatever.
We're all adults who are totally mature and don't, at all, giggle a little bit on the inside when someone talks about what conditions are like on Uranus.
Yeah just kidding, that's hilarious.
Uranus is our favorite heavenly body.
Reddit user rsideoson asked:
"What is a word that sounds inappropriate?"
Don't worry, Reddit is absolutely no more mature than we are and we all deserve a childish giggle every now and then.
"Uvula (dangly bit in your throat)"
"Ooohhh, so it's a girl house"
" 'All god's children got a uvula!'."
"In Swedish it is called gomspene whick translates to pallet teet."
"That little dangly thing that’s hanging in the back of their throat?"
- Admirable-Door1724Snl Season 47 GIF by Saturday Night LiveGiphy
A What Hole ?
"Our city has had several instances of exploding manholes in the downtown area. My friends never let an opportunity to make such comments pass them by. (And I love them for it!)"
"Played some drawing game once where you'd draw the word u get by the game and others would try guess it...my friend got that word and drew a .. manhole..like.. a literal manhole not the actual one, and that was when i learned that word lol"
Chew Works Too
"Especially at the dinner table.."
"Those mukbangers masticate all over the place"
"This is the winner."
"Do you oppose public mastication?"
- Cy41995Hot Dog Eating GIF by NBAGiphy
Lets Just Not Use It Anymore
"This is not a fun or funny example, but, 'niggardly'."
"Etymologically, it has absolutely nothing to do with that other word. They have totally different origins, and sound/look similar purely as a matter of coincidence."
"But it's just not worth the explanation when "stingy" or 'miserly" work just as well, so it's basically a dead word."
"Even the Reverend Jesse Jackson defended the use of this word."
"Also, TIL he's still alive."
"I remember being a preteen and stepdad using this word. I was horrified. He was mildly racist so I wasn’t too surprised but we were in public. 'Dad!!!! There’s a black woman right there!!!'."
"He explained what it meant but I sure never ever used that word."
"Yeah this word is gone forever. There is no way of tossing that out in casual conversation ever again, and even if you did you'd have to spend a good few minutes defending what you meant and looking it up to prove it."
Playing Around With Speed
"It's a running term and as a grown man I still giggle when I hear it."
"Wait is that how it’s spelled? I always thought it was Fartlick lol"
"You guys use that? It's Norwegian, meaning speed game."
"Fartlek’s were misery in high school XC. Always just called it a fart lick"
- silverhammer96Safari Park Running GIF by San Diego ZooGiphy
Fortunella Sounds Fancier
"Got banned from a forum for calling someone a kumquat. No regrets."
"The restaurant I worked at had a kumquat margarita and for a good 2 weeks the menu accidentally had cumquat, but each time the manager tried to fix it they’d accidentally print the wrong on again and there’d be too many copies to just throw out."
"That's a good one"
The 'L' Is Important
"This may only be true in American English...in other accents it's much less suggestive"
"Don't wanna wait forever for that caulk to harden"
"I used to work for a construction company doing purchasing and apparently in the winter caulk gets cold and refuses to work so you need to put your caulk in a caulk warmer"
"My brother insists on over enunciating the L so it sounds like. Cow-LK"
- jawshoeawhomer simpson GIFGiphy
You Sure About This One?
"Jiggers, also known as the chigoe flea. Similarly, chiggers, also known as berry bugs."
"Jigger is also the little double-ended cup bartenders use for measuring alcohol for cocktails."
"I was looking for these two."
" 'Jigger' is used every day by Australian surveyors. It’s what we call our theodolites or Total Stations. Short for thingamajigger perhaps. If my mate’s jigger wasn’t cooperating, he’d say 'jigger please'.”
"What’s my motherf*cking name?"
So Many Botanical Puns
"One summer day at a barbecue at my mum in laws, she walked outside and announced “wait til you see the size of the flower on my clematis” I snort inhaled my wine"
"I think they can cure that with a penicillin shot/s"
"Another botanical word that makes me giggle:"
"Scabiosa. Or, as the Brits would say, scabious."
This Is Another One We Should Maybe Not Use
"Negus. It means a hot drink of port, sugar, lemon, and spices, and it's a royal title."
"Can you use it in a sentence?"
"Doesn't it also refer to an Ethiopian king?"
"Negan in Roman times."
" 'I am Negus! Thou shalt provide me with copious produce!'."
You heard (and laughed at) Reddits appropriately inappropriate words, now it's your turn to get in on the fun.
As much as people try to put on a good face in public, many of them have idiosyncratic behavior–like involuntary foot-tapping–they are ashamed of having.
Some folks, however, are not as self-aware.
These individuals could care less about other people and they act like the world is their nasty, unkempt, malodorous, living room.
Curious to hear examples of gross behavior, Redditor Dazzling_Age_4795 asked:
"What's the most disgusting bad habit?"
No one wants to see it, yet, here we are.
"Taking a dump and then not flushing in public toilets."
"I work in reception in a dental office, our Covid protocols included having wipe down the bathroom after each person. The amount of pee I’ve had to wipe off the seat and floor is absolutely disgusting. People are pigs- wipe the damn seat if your aim is that awful!!! They knew too, the intense stare down I gave them when exiting the bathroom, oh they knew."
Lazy Pet Owners
"Dog poop ( living in holland ) drives me crazy how much is just lying around. Disguisting habit for dog owners to just not care to clean it up. Which is in fact mandatory but hey... if no one sees it, its not a crime."
"People who don’t pick up their dog’s poop don’t deserve to have a dog. I also hate seeing bags of dog sh*t left on the ground. Like why bag it and just leave it there? It’s actually better for the environment if you don’t put it in the bag, lazy."
The Gross Collection
"Keeping your booger wall in plain sight where guests can see it."
"I once saw a person picking their ear and eating the wax. That sh*ts even worse then picking and eating out of your nose."
Those without any concept of having respect for their environment are very telling of the type of person they are.
Trashing The Place
"Those folk who buy cigarettes and casually walk around unwrapping and dropping plastic as they go... God I hate those guys."
Driving Smokers Suck
"People smoking while driving seem to almost always throw their cigarette butt out the window without a care in the world."
And those who don't have any respect for others in public got majorly slammed.
"Not sure if it's a 'habit', per se, but those people that have their phones on speaker ALL THE WAY UP casually talking on the train, in the grocery store, and in restaurants. I do not want to hear about your mother's bunion."
"Dude for real. I go to the library every once in a while for some quiet time.. the number of people who talk on their phone is ridiculous. Half the time if you go up to them and ask if they could be quieter or take it to the lobby they act like you're the rude one."
Clogging The Shower
"Taking a sh*t in the shower and pushing it into the drain... I knew people who did that, safe to say I don't anymore."
A Crappy Confession
"I’ve got to be honest, I farted once and a nugget, maybe the size of a pickled onion, fell out whilst I was taking a shower. As the particular bathroom I was in had the toilet in a separate room I decided the safest option for me was to squish the turd into the drain with my foot."
"I’m not proud but sometimes it has to be done."
"For clarity, I do not condone purposely dropping a full sh*t in the shower."
– User Deleted
Germy COVID Hands
"Not washing hands after using the bathroom, especially in public. Like at a restaurant."
Look, I know we all have our quirks, but I'm just not a nail-chewing and booger-flicking stan.
It's not like people with these habits are deliberately trying to inconvenience my life. But...they are.
I don't need to be stepping on nail remnants and dried-up balls of nose mucus with my barefeet.
So, what gross habits and/or behavior really gets your blood boiling?
People have different levels of tolerance when it comes to profanity.
And some people can't stand the sound of rude or vulgar language so much that they can't bring themselves to say these naughty words themselves.
But when anyone reaches a high level of anger or frustration, they still might need a verbal outlet.
And instead find themselves coming up with an alternative word, which helps them release their anger, but won't offend any nearby ears.
Redditor No-Citron5628 was curious to hear people's favorite alternatives to curse words, leading them to ask:
"What is your best swear word alternative?"
"Oh neptune."- StrappinYoungZiltoid
The last thing you want to find in your bed!
Instead of rude, be educational!
"I said this instead of… other words once when I tripped and accidentally taught this to my nephew."
"Now my sister sends me videos of my nephew saying it when things don’t go his way."- YellowForest4Warning GIFGiphy
Think of the children!
"Not sure of an actual word, but my bf and I have been trying to limit cursing since my toddler is becoming very verbal."
"He’s resorted to making very angry yelling caveman sounds when he wants to curse someone out rather than using the actual words."- Present-Lime-1244
"I like, 'slug in a ditch'."- spiked_macaroonslug GIFGiphy
We can always learn a thing or two from the kids...
"A child in my class tries to swear but unintentionally says foot instead of f*ck."
"It's probably my favorite alternative."
"Wow, didn't expect this to get so much attention."
"Thank you for the award! "
"For those asking, he is a very tiny child with a deep yorkshire accent who actually picked up the word from another child but hasn't noticed he doesn't have the pronunciation quite right yet."
"Context wise though he's bang on which makes it even funnier."- sophishx
Just one word won't do!
"DO YOU SEE WHAT YOU GET, LARRY?!"
"DO YOU SEE WHAT YOU GET WHEN YOU FIND A STRANGER IN THE ALPS?!"- KevinBillyStinkwater
Be mindful, it could backfire
"When my son was little he started saying bastard so I kept saying custard."
"Until the day he complained that we were having bananas and bastard again."- CheeryShortarseDoctor Who Snack GIF by BBC AmericaGiphy
Mother knows best.
"My mother always said, 'Curses!'"
"We, the kids, laugh about it all the time."- tenzip10-0
If you feel like you've sufficiently got your anger or frustration out of your system, your choice of words served their purpose.
Whether or not they would have to be bleeped out on network TV.
When we think of iconic movie quotes, there are several which come instantly to mind.
"Here's looking at you, kid."
"Love is never having to say you're sorry."
"I'm gonna make you an offer you can't refuse."
Appropriately, the ones that might haunt us the most, are those delivered by villains, who linger in our memories not only by their creepy attire and presence but by their devious choice of words.
Frightening us long after the credits stop rolling.
Redditor N_the_character was eager to hear what the Reddit community considered the best quotes from both Hollywood's legendary villains, as well as some lesser-known antagonists from film, TV, and video games, leading them to ask:
"What's the most bada** villain quote?"
Benedict from Last Action Hero
"Benedict to youg Danny in 'Last Action Hero':"
"I should tell you that I have killed people smarter and younger than you."- S-Marktlast action hero art GIF by xponentialdesignGiphy
"Pirates are evil?"
"The Marines are righteous?"
"These terms have always changed throughout the course of history!"
"Kids who have never seen peace and kids who have never seen war have different values!"
"Those who stand at the top determine what's wrong and what's right!"
"This very place is neutral ground!"
"Justice will prevail, you say?"
"But of course it will!"
"Whoever wins this war becomes justice!"- TimeisaLie
The Man with the Midas Touch...
"Goldfinger after Bond says 'Do you expect me to talk?'
"'No, Mr. Bond, I expect you to die'."- Hunk_StudlyInterrupting GIF by James Bond 007Giphy
The Last Airbender's Azula
"Dai Li: 'You've beaten me at my own game'."
"Azula: 'Don't flatter yourself. You were never even a player'."- herculesmeowlligan
Inigo Montoya, watch out!
"'Good Heavens, are you still trying to win?'"
"-the six fingered man."
Video game villains shouldn't be forgotten, ask Ghaul
“'You are not brave, you’ve merely forgotten the fear of death'."
"'Allow me to reacquaint you'.”- KentuckyBourbon94
The Good, the Bad, and the one-liners
"'When you have to shoot, shoot'."
"Tuco, 'The Good, The Bad and The Ugly'."- jpablo680
Whiterose of Mr. Robot
“'Because Phillip, I had to ask you twice'.”- Lontano64
The final frontier indeed...
"'A true victory is to make your enemy see they were wrong to oppose you in the first place'."
"'To force them to acknowledge your greatness'."
"Gul Dukat, Deep Space Nine."- hamdingersDeep Space Nine Dislike GIF by Star TrekGiphy
A true villain will have you quaking in your boots with just one look.
But it's with their words that they really get you.
And how they instantly go from being merely villains, to legends.