Garbage Collectors Describe The Best Thing They've Ever Found That Someone Threw Away
The old saying goes "one man's trash is another man's treasure." But sometimes--how could that NOT be considered treasure?
The waste system we have developed as humans guarantees people will throw out something that will be useful to the person who finds it or has to collect it. The wealthy seemingly have unlimited resources.
And eventually, even us peons may come across something really really nice that we can take home and use for ourselves.
u/wayne88imps asked:
Garbage men/woman of the world. What's the best/worst thing you have found "thrown away" ?
Sexy Sax Time
When I was a kid my dad worked for a company that hauled away dumpsters and at one point found an old alto sax complete in the box.
Ended up playing it for four years up until high school when it was stolen, couldn't play after that since my family couldn't afford a rental let alone pay for a new one.
A Chest Of Hopes And Dreams
A Lane cedar chest. I was helping my dad clean out this lady's garage and she said as long as we were there, we might as well take that, too. She said she always hated the smell of cedar but her husband wouldn't let her get rid of it and now that he was dead, she was sending it on its way!
The veneer was never in great shape but it still keeps my wool items safe. I've had it for over 30 years now.
Let's Head To France
My little brother was emptying out a client's basement and everything was going to be thrown away so my brother was told to keep anything he wanted.
He saw a nice looking bike and took it. Turns out it was a Dahon mu p8 30th anniversary limited edition and in perfect condition. From what I found on it, it goes for over $4K.
Some of these items are just plain luxury, thrown in the garbage.
Stock Up That N64...But Not The Corpses
My dad was a trash man when I was growing up. He would always be bringing cool stuff home to us. He used to always say that the "poor" neighborhoods had the most trash and they threw away literally everything.
The two best ones that I can think of was a brand new BMX bike and like 20 Nintendo 64 games that he found at a video rental store.
Also once at the transfer station one of his co-workers found a "dummy arm" in the big pile of trash. He pulled it and it ended up being a dead guy, the police later determined that it was a homeless person that got picked up and died when the trash truck compacted him.
A Chaise, If You Will
When I was a kid I found a couch. It wasn't very big, but thats why it was so great. 10 year old me was able to carry it all the way home by myself. (About a block and a half.) This was before kids having cell phones were huge so I didn't call my parents about it first and they were at the store anyways. So I took the couch home and put it in my room. It was pretty dated... Made of some material I've never encountered again so far, but I thought I was THE SH*T. I had a whole couch in my room.
How many 10 year olds had couches in their room? Well my parents came home and clearly weren't happy, but given I carried it up to the second story and got it into my room they let me keep it. (My down stairs neighbor helped me.)
I felt like a king. I had a couch. I had a big box TV for my play station. I had it all. Simpler times.
HD BaBYYYYYY
Found a 55 inch tv next to the dumpster 4 years ago. It was missing 1 hdmi port on the side. It looked like someone might have tripped and ripped it out. Anyway, I opened it up googled the motherboard serial number and found a brand new replacement for like $60 less then 25min away....needless to say I called ahead on my day off picked it up and it works like a charm. Still use the tv to this day.
55in Sony 2012 lcd tv. I have chromecast with google tv hooked up to it now and it's awesome.
Itty Bitty Kitty Committee
I worked as a garbage man in 1972. A small stray cat jumped into the back of the hopper to look for food. I took him home and named him saigon.
This was the best thing. Second best thing someone threw out an old pair of skis. There was snow on the ground and me and the other guy each took a ski and stood on it and held onto the truck, great fun.
Third best we found an entire case of "brylcream" (look it up) and me and the other guy had brylcream fights all day, total mess (I stripped off before going into my house after work). Worst things a garbage can that had live coals in it that started our truck on fire.
What was once trash to some folks are now priceless memories for others.
Silver And Gold
Not me but my brother. Someone apparently threw out grandpas stuff from the attic after he passed away. This was the last scheduled pickup at the house and everything was already moved out, nobody living there.
Driving an automated (claw to grab and dump) truck, my brother was irritated there were these 2 bowling bags he had to get out to throw in the truck.
He realized they seemed a bit heavy, so he opened them to see why. Inside there was real silver silverware/flatware. He ended up selling it for scrap prices to a jeweler and got $3000.
How A Trampoline Could Have Changed My Life
My father was a garbage man who also did clean-outs for homes and businesses, where they'd rip apart the entire building and throw everything out in their dumpsters. He worked on a ton of really massive houses, some worth 10s of millions of dollars, one was worth 40 million and wasn't even the permanent residence.
Best things I got as a kid: A pretty much unused trampoline with a net and everything.
A go-kart that my dads friend was able to fix up and we used all the time (I live on a dead end).
And once he cleaned out a deli that was closing down, and we no joke had unlimited Snapples and Sodas of every flavor for almost a year. I'd drink the Snapples while out on the trampoline. I used the hell out of all 3 of those things in my childhood
WIDDLE PUPPER
My father was a garbage man when I was born. I don't remember because I was like 3 months old. But my first dog was in the trash. My dad stopped. Picked up a box and heard some shuffling on the inside and there were two puppies. My dad kept one and the driver kept the other.
They were brother and sister (my dad assumed). He kept the male and named him Jasper. He was literally my best friend growing up. I had him for 13 years and my dad tells me the job was worth it just for that dog.
He called the police and animal control on the residence but doesn't know what happened after that. All I know is I'm 37 and still love that dog so much. I'm so thankful my dad saved him and his sister.
You Never Know Someone's Personal Life
My dad's been a garbage man for 30 years, and on one of his routes he had this super sweet old couple that always waved hi and brought him snacks. Well one day as he was dumping their cans a bag fell out. Inconvenient but happens every once in awhile, just gotta pick it up and you're on your way.
He gets out and starts picking it up when he sees a really nice black leather leash. That's nice, must have a dog, he'll have to ask to see him sometime. Further along he sees a large black harness. Must be a.. big dog. And then he finds them. A whip, ball gag, and a nipple tassel.
And there he realizes, that's no dog he wants to see. And so, the thought he's been pushing back in his mind emerges. "F**k... I'm touching old people bondage gear" He left very quickly and throughly cleaned his hands. But sadly he can't clean his mind of the image.
Side Hustlin'
Friend of mine was a teacher in public schools. We live in a University town.
He would be off for the summer when the University quarter ended and the students moved out of their apartments. He would dumpster dive and pick up all the small appliances, coffee makers, blenders, sometimes a TV or computer plus lots of silverware plates etc. Basically he picked up all the small things one needs to live in an apartment.
He would store all this in his garage and in the fall, he would have a huge garage sale and sell the same stuff back to the incoming students.
He always made lots of money at this.
Lots Of Money For My Own Car Upgrade
I'm not a garbage man by trade but more of a hobbyist. best dumpster dive ever was a Ford dealership that threw out an ENTIRE dumpster of new Ford Lincoln Mercury service manuals.
They cost hundreds of dollars per set new. It was winter time and sooo cold outside, and it took me two hours to empty the dumpster but I got them all. Filled my minivan with no seats in it floor to ceiling. I sold them all on ebay over 18 months or so and made about $10k.
The Things You Leave Behind
I worked as a showcleaner in Melbourne a few years ago and we would sometimes get leftovers from shows and fairs and other events. For example after a Coffee Fair we got hundreds of cases of all sorts of plant based milk. They were still on the pallets and the trader didn't want to load them back up. At a beer and wine fair the same happened, but with wine and craft beer. We had quite a few parties "sponsored" from that one.
Then there was this one big concert where a huge storm hit and everyone left everything they had brought behind to hide in their cars and leave. We found camping furniture and lots of closed beverages and food. One coworker even found a bunch of bundled up cash, which amounted to a couple hundred bucks. And, since it was a concert of a band a lot of older people listened to, we found coke, handed it over to the authorities and later were told it was enough to buy a small car from the market value it represented.
But the coolest thing that happened at one of the shows was not something we found. There was a big classic car event at the show grounds and it had some of the finest and rarest cars you could imagine. At the end, we were cleaning as usual, and this guy comes up saying he saw us during the shows checking out some of the cars. At first I thought he'd berate us, because we were just the cleaners and should focus on the job. But then he invites us to ride along if we wanted to. So that was the time I got a childhood dream fulfilled and was allowed to drive in a '69 Dodge Charger R/T.
This experience and the fact that we got to go backstage with some of the coolest bands was the big plus of an otherwise hard and dirty job.
Why Throw Out Your Ski Things?!
We have a good friend who garbage picks. He has done so for quite awhile now as a hobby. For years he was the "ski Fairy". We have 4 kids and they ran through kid skis, boards, poles, boots, masks, like crazy as all kids do as they grow. He and his wife and son all skied, and he would pick up good stuff when he saw it on his rounds.
Every so often we would pull into the drive and leaning against the garage would be skis or boots or other equipment that he thought might work for one or more of the kids. The ski fairy had made a delivery.
He has found lots of nice things and more valuable stuff, but still my favorite story is his finding money. Change. Not like $6 in a drawer or box. Buckets of it. $780 or so.
Not mistakenly thrown out. Placed with garbage. And, $780 in change is heavy. No mistake it was being tossed. I guess not worth counting.
Money Money Money...Must Be Funny...It's A Garbage World
Not a garbage specialist, but my buddy ran maintenance at the local land fill, which is located along an extremely busy highway. One of their duties was to cleanup the shoulder of the highway a mile in either direction of the main driveway each day.
Cash. Money. He would find cash most days on the side of the road. People driving with their windows down and the dollar bills would fly out the window. Sometimes 5 bucks or other times he would pickup as much as 50 to 85 dollars. Although he said it was more lower amounts commonly with the higher dollars being every once and a while.
There you have it. People throw out TVs, trampolines, and even pets. People get their best friends from these garbage stops.
But seriously, don't throw out your pets. Please call an ASPCA if you are that desperate.
Those who grew up between the '80s and early 2000s have a long memory of items and experiences that either went out of style or disappeared completely.
From early PC games to Blockbuster to favorite snacks, there's a lot to miss from childhood.
But the odd thing is how quietly some of these things went away, and how few people seemed to notice.
Feeling nostalgic, Redditor lukiiiiii asked:
"What quietly went away without anyone noticing?"
Top-Notch Abbreviations
"ROFL (Rolling on the Floor Laughing) dropped off of the face of the planet, and now we just go straight from LOL (Laughing Out Loud) to LMAO (Laughing My A** Off)."
"I've been using it way more lately because of this. ROFL; can't let the classics die."
- habofi2125
Save Those Box Tops!
"Actual toys in cereal boxes and Cracker Jack boxes."
- GuttMilton
The Early Facebook Years
"Facebook 'Poke' wars."
- Hot_buttered_toast
How the Times Have Changed
"People calling them 'camera phones.'"
- NecroJoe
Advancing Technology
"When you turn off the TV, how the image would shrink to a dot before slowly fading away."
- ConcreteCubeFarm
TV Connection
"When you turn off the TV and then you run your finger on the screen and hear the crackle and feel the static on the glass."
- iwannaberockstar
Positive Environmental Change
"Acid Rain."
"It was a huge environmental issue in the late 70s through the early 90s. Rain was acidic and damaged fertile areas among other things."
"In the US, there was much research done, and eventually industrial regulations were put into place. Companies were allowed to decide what approach they chose to take as long as the results showed the appropriate amount of reduction in sulfur dioxide emissions."
"Unfortunately, positive news doesn't sell, so news outlets did not do justice to reporting this success. As we went into the 2000s, hardly anyone remembered what was done."
- GurglingWaffle
Can We Say, 'Nom Nom Nom'?
"McDonald's all-day breakfast menu."
- EmeraldAlicorn
Old Pastimes
"The pandemic killed a lot more than just people. I really miss McDonald's all-day breakfast."
"And being able to go to Walmart at 2 AM."
- LyrMeThatBifrost
The Days of Landlines and Cords
"I live in a rural area and have to pay for landline service to have internet. Since I have to pay for something so stupid, I figured I'd have to get something stupid."
"...So I got the hamburger phone from the movie 'Juno.'"
"Not gonna lie, the landline has come in clutch a few times, and holding a hamburger to your ear is amusing every time. 10/10 would recommend."
- Meat_Skeleton
Late-night Grocery Runs
"I think people have noticed now but at the time, nobody noticed it was happening: the closing of 24-hour stores. I live in a major city and we don’t have a single 24-hour grocery store ever since the pandemic."
- anxiousfamily
"In a World Where..."
"Movie trailers with that deep voice guy [Don LaFontaine] doing the voiceovers."
- jonathonkarate
SoBe Drinks
"SoBe. I think the last time I had one was at Quizno's."
"[cue 'X-Files' Music]"
- kooshipuff
Gizzard the Taco Bell Dog
"Taco Bell used to have a chihuahua as their mascot. Little dude just disappeared one day, and anyone born after 2000 probably doesn't even know what I am talking about."
- To_Fight_the_Night
Google+
"Google+ was the only social media our school forgot to block on our laptops, so I used it a lot. RIP."
- AgentBieber
Some of these really brought back some deeply-engrained memories for the '80s to '00s kids, and it's true that many of them blipped out of existence quietly.
But if this teaches us anything, it doesn't mean that "out of sight, out of mind" also has to mean "out of heart."
And let's have a moment of silence for the vocal stylings of Don LaFontaine and Gizzard the talking Taco Bell dog.
We all know that the human body is very complex.
But even with all the recorded and available science, there are certain things about our bodies that continue to elude us, and medical experts can still get stumped about how the human form reacts unpredictably.
Curious to discover some of the mystifying yet unsettling truths about our anatomy, Redditor Hot_Banana_Ice-cream asked:
"What is a creepy fact about the human body?"
Now, observe this.
Visceral Reaction
"If you wear glasses which vertically inverts your vision long enough, your brain will correct it, and you'll see things normal. But when your take those glasses off, everything will look upside-down again until brain recalibrates again."
– shadow29warrior
Brain Assessment
"Our brain filters out a lot of what we see along with just straight making sh*t up based on extrapolation."
– AdmiralClover
The Experiment
"My favorite is the blind spot at the center of each eye, where the optic nerve is."
"A lot of people don't even know it exists, and even if they do, it is bigger than people often think."
"And it's also really easy to demonstrate to people if you know how. It's one of my favorite bar tricks - all you need is a pen and a napkin to draw a cross and a dot."
https://thebrain.mcgill.ca/flash/capsules/experience_jaune06.html
Alternate demo: https://faculty.washington.edu/chudler/chvision.html
"Edit: If it doesn't work, you're doing something wrong - not getting close enough, the image is too small on your phone, you're not closing the correct eye or not keeping your gaze fixed on the cross."
"It isn't because you don't have a blind spot. Unless you're a squid, you have a blind spot. All vertebrates have them."
– M0dusPwnens
The workings of our innards are out of this world.
The intestines are covered by a double "fleece" of peritoneum. See it like a blanket.
When your intestines get damaged for whatever reason, this blanket starts moving out of itself and crawling upwards towards the place which has the injury. It will stay there until the injury is recovered. And then move on again.
Maybe not the most creepy fact, but definitely interesting in my opinion.
Do Do That Doo-Doo
"We don't just have one anal sphincter. When poo comes along it passes another inner sphincter which isn't under voluntary control."
"Sensory cells can detect whether you're about to pass gas or solid. From toddler age on, you can decide to go or not to go. If the time isn't right (e.g. at a friend's house or no toilet nearby), the inner sphincter can push the poo back and store it there for later."
"That's why sometimes if you need to do a number two but don't go, the urge goes away after about 20 minutes later. (But seriously, go if you can. Constipation risk.)"
"Gas can't be pushed back so easily, so we sometimes toot by accident when moving or engaging the core."
– bmb00zld
The Same Lining
"The inside of your cheek and your rectum are lined by the same type of tissue."
– GasTsnk87
You don't always have control of your body.
Taste Of Curiosity
"The front of your tongue is curious, constantly patrolling, and autonomous. It chases the dentist around your mouth and you aren’t even aware of it. So embarrassing and weird/creepy."
– AdeleBerncastel
Licking Partner
"In dental school, I learned this fact when practicing taking impressions on each other. My buddy’s tongue kept licking my finger. I asked him to quit licking me, and he was like 'I can’t help it!' And then we switched places and my tongue wouldn’t leave him alone.And for those of you that don’t think your tongue does this: some of you are right. But the majority of you just think your tongue is behaving, but it is all over the place without you even knowing."
– recoveringcultmember
Dancing With The Dead
"Bodies will move as they’re coming out of rigor. I’ve been bumped by a few (I’m a coroner). Bodies can also make sounds as the remaining air/ gas leaves… 2am in the morgue and I thought I was in COD zombies."
– Jar-JarShotFirst69
Wonder of wonders.
The Only Way Out
"When you get laser tattoo removal the ink doesn’t disappear, you pee it out."
"Your body’s immune system breaks down the pigments of ink and it flows in your blood stream, gets processed through your kidneys, then you pee out the ink."
– Fine_wonderland
Our soul-containing vessel is a mysterious wonder unique to us.
We should do whatever it takes to take great care of it because it's the only one we've got.
If we don't, they might turn on us.
People Explain Which Companies They Wish Would Go Out Of Business To Help Improve Society
When the global pandemic hit in march of 2020, countless companies saw themselves going under.
Sadly, some companies, from a wide variety of businesses, simply couldn't adapt to working under the parameters of social distancing, or couldn't adapt in time, resulting in them permanently closing their doors.
Many people were sad to see these companies close, while many others were even sadder that some companies managed to pull through and stay open.
Indeed, long before Covid-19 wreaked havoc on the world, some companies and corporations people felt were actually detrimental to society would be doing the world a favor by going out of business.
Redditor param_T_extends_THOT was curious to find out which companies people fell into this less than prolific category, leading them to ask:
"Which company could go out of business tomorrow and it would be to the betterment of this world?"
Nothing Express About It
"Express Scripts."- BadDadJokes
Wildly Different, Yet Equally Unnecessary
"Privatized prisons."
"Glitter manufacturers."- Sped-Connection
Where To Even Begin?
"The church of Scientology?"- dipshipsaidso
church building GIF by South Park GiphyBeware The Pyramids
"Any MLM bullsh*t."- Work-Alone
Taylor Swift Would Probably Agree
"Ticketmaster."- Tynesand
You Really Want To Trust Them With Your Money?
"HSBC, one of the largest banks in the world, is a criminal enterprise:"
"In 2012, the bank paid $1.9 billion to settle charges brought by U.S. authorities that it had failed to prevent money laundering by Mexican drug cartels."
"In 2013, HSBC was fined $1.92 billion by US and UK regulators for its role in the manipulation of the London Interbank Offered Rate (LIBOR), a benchmark interest rate."
"In 2014, the bank was charged by the U.S. Department of Justice for violating sanctions against Iran, Sudan, and other countries."
"In 2018, the bank was charged by the US Department of Justice for violating the Bank Secrecy Act and anti-money laundering regulations."
"Also, Nestle."- alecsputnik
Amen!
"Joel Osteen's ministries."- ststeveg
Joel Osteen Highwire Live GIF by Volcano Live! with Nik WallendaGiphyMaybe All Big Pharma?
'Seems like the general consensus is Nestle, but I’ll be weird and say DuPont."
"They’re the reason every living human on the planet has Forever Chemicals running through their bloodstream."-poppidypoppop
"Blinded By The Light"...
"Everyone one that makes blindingly bright low beam bulbs."- RetinaMelter9000s
One Bad Experience Can Ruin It Forever
"Mark's plumbing."- GreenieMachinie93
Rockos Modern Life 90S GIFGiphy"Oh The Wells Fargo Wagon Is A Comin' Down The Street..."
"Wells Fargo."- Itchy_Focus_4500
Honestly, Can't Agree With This One
"F*cking TurboTax."- camilofl20
Absolutely Frightening
"Wagner Group.'
"Dirty mercenary army with soldiers for hire."
"They have caused chaos where ever they have gone."
"Syria, Central African Republic, Madagascar, Libya, Venezuela, mali, Mozambique and a few other places, they have no desire to see a peaceful world as that would financially cripple them as a organization."
"Look at what they are doing to the Ukrainian people."
"Despicable organization and they have zero moral compass."- Weary_Violinist_3610
Maybe all Credit Reporting?
"Experian, Equifax, and/or Transunion."
"Leeches on America."- compusmack
Smiley Face Thumbs Up GIF by Tier One CreditGiphyCan't Help But Say It, Did She Really Think "goop" Was An Appealing Name?
"Comcast & goop."- celeresaharano·
Be it poor customer service, questionable business practices, or just plain fraud, it's hard not to agree that any or all of these companies would not be missed should they close their doors.
After all, when a health and wellness brand openly tells you that some or all of its products may not actually improve your health or wellness, that just about says it all.
...even if Shakespeare in Love remains a romantic gem...
Even if society as a whole seems to become more tolerant with each passing year, bullying still remains an ever-growing problem.
Particularly at schools.
Some might say bullying has only gotten worse, as social media often means children are no longer safe when they're out of school hallways and in the comfort of their own homes.
What is perhaps most disturbing and perplexing about bullying is there is never a justifiable reason for people to behave so appallingly.
Often, children bully other children to make them seem cool or powerful in the eyes of others.
Most of the time, they will also pinpoint a certain thing about their helpless victims as a feeble excuse to justify their bullying.
"What were you bullied for?"
Trying Too Hard
"I was socially awkward."
"I also was greatly motivated to be liked."
"I did a lot of sh*t trying to be liked that in hindsight, made me unliked."- EVEseven
Health Conditions Beyond Their Control
"Eczema which often affected my face."- Puffs01
Name Calling? Seriously?
"I was called a biscuit head, because my head was shaped like a biscuit."- cerakaz
It's Not Like They Chose It.
"My name."- maximus12121
Only Cowards Don't Pick On People Their Own Size
"Being the small kid."- occamhanlon
Picking On People For Keeping To Themselves? Just Cruel.
"For being the quiet kid."- actuallyjohnqmind
No Reason Whatsoever
"To this day, I really don't know."
"Something happened in the summer between 2nd and 3rd grade that made a bunch of people decide that they didn't like me anymore, including my best friend.'
"I only had two friends left until my family moved away in the middle of 7th grade."
"Bullies would follow me home most days and my mom finally had to verbally super-saiyan a few parents down the street to get them to take it down a notch."
"I finally asked one of them what I ever did to them, and they said 'you were born'."
"How do you even respond to that statement."
"I just got a sharp pang after seeing that phrase again."- msprang
Ignoring It Is Enabling It
"I was bullied from age 6 to age 13 every day for my surname (a word for a hunchback in my language) , my looks, my nature, me knowing English, reading, drawing and just existing overall."
"I f*cking hated middle school."
"My mom tried standing up for me, but no one cares in Slavic countries and the teachers didn't give a sh*t even though they saw everything, it's all part of growing up."
"My father ignored my constant tears and the terror I experienced in those years."
"I was attacked, beaten, and targeted whenever i would leave my flat."
"I was stabbed with screwdrivers and dull knives, chased around the neighborhood by kids on bikes while they threw rocks at me."
"I was only invited to birthday parties so that the kids would have someone to terrorize and gang up on."
"I always hated birthdays, but my mom though maybe the children would be kinder to me out of school."
"But that's that."
"Once I began high school I was around all new people, and I decided to play as a tough girl and stood up for myself on the get-go."
"But it turns out art school mostly brought other bullied kids together and I had the 4 best years of my life there with other kind and loving people who just wanted to make friends and have fun."- Cropalitet
Knowing They Wouldn't Fight Back
"Being easy to walk over."
"I had a really hard time asserting myself."
"So being 'too nice'."
"But really, just very insecure."- idolovehummus
Classism
"Being poor."
"And my mom smoked continuously so being poor and smelly."
"Kids are brutal."
"For those that can relate I'm wishing you all the best for where you are now."
"We are a product of where we came from but that doesn't define who we are today."
"For those that can't relate, I'm so glad you had a different childhood and also hope you are doing well."
"And for those that find this is their moment to continue to bully, I hope kindness finds you and helps you with whatever you need to have a brighter day."- Evil-ish
Red Hair Is Beautiful, And Don't Ever Forget It
"Glasses, red hair, and freckles."
"Opie, Howdy Doody, and red-headed step child jokes all the way through school."- espifer
"Having red hair."- DeplorableKurt
In Other Words, Just For Being Yourself
"As a black kid, in a predominantly black area:
"Wearing glasses and having braces."
"Being fat."
"Being nice."
"Being smart."
"Liking Anime."
"Wanting to be a Pilot (influenced by the Anime I liked the most)."
"But guess what?"
"I'm a f*cking Pilot now."- ApacheOc3lot
Perhaps the saddest, or most infuriating, cases of bullying are when people bully others for sharing likes or interests they have themselves.
Case in point, and true story: being bullied constantly through 2nd and 3rd grade for liking Mighty Morphin Power Rangers."
Only to see several of the people who bullied you express their excitement at the release of the 2017 film version of Power Rangers on Facebook.
Some children are just, plain cruel...