Let's face it. While platitudes are all well and good, they are merely a contrivance to fill the silence that has stunned devastated communities.
As many American citizens call for stricter gun legislation, there are just as many who advocate for their right to the Second Amendment.
How has this become the polarizing issue in the country while many other parts of the world maintain peace–presumably due to citizens not having the right to bear arms?
Genuinely curious to hear from a specific demographic, Redditor Wonderful-Wash-2145 asked:
"To the Americans who don’t agree with changing the gun laws? Why?"
People shared their informed opinions in great detail.
When Gun Advocates Lack Common Sense Or Knowledge
"I live in a state, California, which has all of the gun laws that people are asking for and then some. While our gun violence isn't as high as a lot of other states, it was already rapidly trending downward before our biggest laws, like our 'Assault Weapons' ban passed. And we've still had our share of mass shootings. With the laws in place it's easy to see why they're ineffective."
"Assault Weapons ban? Because the only thing separating an AR-15 from any other semi-automatic rifle are ergonomic features like the stock and grip, AR-15s and similar rifles are still sold here, just with those features swapped out for less comfortable alternatives."
"'Universal' Background Checks? What people don't realize is that every gun store around the country has to run background checks on buyers already, 'Universal' means that private sellers have to do that too. How is that accomplished? The buyer and seller have to meet at a gun shop so the gun shop can run the background check. The problem is, there's nothing to stop someone from just NOT doing that. If you want to sell a gun to your best friend, there's nothing stopping you from doing it in the comfort of your own home, no paperwork required. So universal background checks aren't universal, they're voluntary but if people called them voluntary background checks, it would be too self-evident that they're not much of a solution."
"Before people say 'Well one state having those laws is ineffective because people can just buy from another state.' No, that's not legal. You can only legally buy a gun in the state in which you reside. Do people still do it? Yes, people break the law by buying from private sellers, which more laws wouldn't prevent."
"Americans buy 15 Million guns a year from dealers, who knows how many are purchased from private sellers. Countries like Australia where gun control has been effective only had a few million guns in their whole country, much less the hundreds of millions that the US has."
"The reason gun nuts oppose 'common sense' gun control is that a prerequisite for common sense is common knowledge, and it's rare for gun control advocates to have knowledge of both firearms and the laws that currently regulate them in pro gun control states like California."
In The Absence Of Enforcement
"And, a lot of the existing laws aren't enforced. Domestic abusers are supposed to surrender their arms are rarely do and the police rarely follow up, for example. I saw a thread yesterday where someone cited 27,000 known firearms holders that were illegal that law enforcement didn't do anything about."
– allboolshite
Weak arguments were also presented.
A Proposal
"So why not make guns have to be registered the way cars are? If I want to sell my car to my friend, I have to fill out paperwork to tell the state that the title for that car is being transferred to my friend. Can’t we do the same for guns?"
– SenoraNegra
A Salesman's Statistic
"I sell auto insurance. Do you know how often someone comes in to insure a vehicle they purchased but never put into their name? Literally like 5 times a weeks if not more."
– Hemp_Milk
Troubling Situation
"A big problem with anything regulatory is how ripe it is to be exploited for the person doing the regulations. A lot of gun control measures have to be enforced by someone and if that person is racist, guess who gets the regulations enforced against them more often? It's still a policing issue when at the core a large group of people simply can't trust the police, and now this is putting both parties in an even more dangerous position."
– Marco2021st
The thread continued sparking a lengthy discussion about gun culture.
A Slippery Slope
"I think one of the concerns that people are thinking about is that the 'gun reform' movement is a stomach that can't ever be satisfied, meaning, they are always going to ask for more ways to reform guns until eventually people won't get to have any. And I think people who are against gun reform know that 'gun reform' is a slippy slope to banning guns outright and overturning the 2nd Amendment."
– BoringNoise9942
What's The Point?
"Governments do not care about their people. Look at selling drugs to the black community, poisoning alcohol during prohibition, anti-privacy laws, I could go on but there's no need to fill paragraphs of these things. And we're supposed to hand over our tools of self-defense and expect the government to protect us? The same government that just sat there outside the Uvalde school?"
"And how are they going to get guns out of the hands of criminals anyway? A good chunk of these shooters are already using guns they can't legally own. If they try to completely get rid of firearms through a 'war on guns' in the same way they've waged a 'war on drugs' for decades, then the amount of illegal, untraceable firearms is only going to go up with every passing decade."
– Mama_Mega_
The Challenge Of Regulating Culture
"I think people are dancing around a core point here as well: you cannot legislate culture."
"Say we do implement just the most severe of gun laws and, miracle beyond miracles, they are 100% effective. Alright, so if I want to hurt a bunch of people en masse and guns are out of the question what do I do? What about just running a van through a crowd? What about some improvised explosive devices? Knives?"
"People think guns are the problem, but they are just a very convenient tool by which the problem expresses itself. I’ve lived in many of the so-called 'safe countries' with strong gun laws. In some respects, they are indeed safer, but it’s because the laws reflect a pre-existing cultural sentiment. This also doesn’t mean random mass violence doesn’t happen. I’m going to use Japan here because that’s a country I spent a long time in: there were the famous sarin gas attacks in 1994, also a murderer who drove a vehicle through a crowd in Akihabara (early 2000’s, I believe), and a lot more public stabbing sprees than you’d expect. One even happened a few stations down from me while living there and three little girls on their way to school died. It’s more of historical crime now, but there was also an early 1900’s mass shooting where a man, rejected by local women, decided to cut off power in his local village and systematically execute everyone in their sleep before blowing his own head off at dawn."
"The effort needs to be put into why we seem to have so many disaffected people who are so far gone that mass shootings seem like a reasonable consideration. Gun laws are ultimately just a bandaid fix and, because a good portion of the U.S. is culturally attuned to firearms in a positive way, it’s a bandaid fix that one would have to fight tooth and nail for."
"It would be an inefficient fight and even absolute victory would just result in a half measure. I oppose gun laws for precisely the same reason I oppose the war on drugs; it’s a fight that will never end just by slapping on new policies. Generations of legislators and activists will commit to it and unfathomable amounts of tax dollars will be dumped into it and in 30 years we will still be asking ourselves the same fundamental questions about our safety."
"The uncomfortable reality, at least from where I sit, is that a lasting solution is going to have to be proactive, play the long game, and be willing to figure out what has gone so wrong in our social makeup as to push people to random acts of mass violence."
"And even then, there will still just be psychopaths beyond salvaging and reincorporating into functional society."
"I also know people will want to just say 'no, more just gun laws' or 'this is all the fault of capitalism' etc. etc. but I think those who hold these simplistic, one-note positions are fooling themselves into thinking that this is as easy as identifying the sole 'big bad thing' and then destroying it. As a historian, I can guarantee you that it’s never just one factor at play.'
"I couldn’t agree more that Americans need a more proactive and preventative approach to this issue. But I think guns are just the patsy boogeyman that is simple and comfortable to place blame on. If Americans choose to fight that fight, then so be it, but I maintain that it will be long and ineffectual. In the mean time, more will die and we can all happily believe we are doing something about it."
– Samhain27
What Is It About America?
"I get 'gun culture'. But why is the US more violent?"
I think madmen and people that commit acts of random violence are basically the same % in every country. Difference is that if a mad men in my country comes at a supermarket with a knife, he might kill one or two people but he will get tackled."
"Taking a car trough a crowd, been there. That's a different animal, is terrorism."
– Good-Groundbreaking
The thread was full of debates with pro-gun activists presenting their case and anti-gun advocates responding with arguments.
It's an endless discussion that has no resolve in sight.
So now what? What are your thoughts and suggestions that would promote a compromise or solution about gun control?
But some dinguses will inevitably fall through the cracks.
u/ZeXaLGames asked, "Security guards at shooting ranges, whats the dumbest shit you have seen people do?"
That's One Way to be Sure
I legitimately watched an instructor show some guys he was training how to unload, and to be sure it was unloaded correctly, then to demonstrate it was unloaded, he picked it up and pointed it at one of the students.
No Deaths, Up Top
And another time some douchebag was shooting a .50 BMG bolt action and purposefully trying to shoot above the berm in an attempt to knock a tree down. He put 5 rounds into a building 2 miles away and laughed when the RSO was notified and asked him about it. Literally high fived his friend.
GiphyFirst Service.....PULL
I saw two guys throwing tennis balls into the air and trying to shoot them with large caliber rifles. They missed of course, god knows where the rounds went. They got kicked out when the guy throwing them ran into the firing range to retrieve them.
Trusting Fella
I once had the damn range safety officer tell me "i'm going to go change my targets, make sure you keep your shots away from the right side of the range"
GiphySorry, Had an Itch
Was walking through the clearing procedure for the M9 with one cadet, and as I was explaining, he uses the barrel of the pistol to push his safety glasses back up on his face.
Makes Your Aim Better
A guy, an ex cop mind you, is doing the El Presidente drill. You spin, draw your pistol, and then work your way down the targets. Instead, he draws his gun before spinning. So when he spins he sweeps the entire crowd of students with his gun.
GiphyHuge 'Terminator' Fan
I watched someone load a shotgun and hold it with one hand, outward. I wasn't able to get to him in time before he shot it. Poor bastard
Didn't Think We Needed That On the Rule Board...
I once saw someone slap the teachers butt
Didn't Feel Like Taking His Gloves Off
My husband and I went to a shooting range and while my husband was shooting I saw a guy scratch the side of his head with the barrel of his gun and then continue shooting.
Maybe a Different Route Next Time
I notice some dirt tumbling down from the berm. Obviously I aim the rifle at what may have caused it. Just a middle aged woman walking her dog down the berm towards a couple of guys shooting. We obviously all called cold and dressed her down. She claimed ignorance that she had no idea that there was a gun club abutting her property. A gun club that shoots from sunrise-sunset every day but Christmas for the last 107 years.
Gloves Please.....
A guy on a sports team I play in is a drug squad cop and told us the following story. They had staked out a meth lab house for awhile and surveilled the house with pinhole cameras for some time. They'd noticed that the occupants were becoming increasingly erratic, someone senior suggested it was due to them not replacing the filters in their protective masks.
Anyway, at some stage they decide it's time to go in, so tactical enter and grab all the guys and clear the rooms. Then a chemical team go in to make sure everything is safe. Eventually my mate and his team go in to collect evidence with a few young uniforms to help.
The house is a bit of a shambles but nothing too unexpected, until one of the uniforms picks up a large rubber dildo and starts playing around with it in front of everybody. The senior then tells him: you know that while reviewing all the footage on this place we never saw any women entering or leaving this house... And why are you the only one not wearing gloves? bPhrea
Over Chicken?
GiphyNot a cop, but a cop friend of mind in SE Washington, DC. He got a domestic disturbance call and arrived to a calm scene. The husband explained he and his wife had been arguing, and that she had gone over the top, but they were both fine now. The wife confirmed the story, but stated she didn't want the husband back in the house that night. My friend asked if the husband had a place to go, and he agreed to go to his mother's house for the night.
The husband left, then my friend and his partner left soon after. About an hour later, they get a call back to the same house. When they get there, the husband is in the kitchen dead. The wife explains that right after the police left, her husband came back and resumed arguing with her. He got in her face and she stabbed in the neck with a chicken bone, hitting his carotid artery. abbrollher
On a hot midnight in The Bronx about 330 am......
On a hot midnight in The Bronx about 330 am got a burg call. Me and my partner found it strange when central gave us the address because it was a funeral home. We arrive on scene of this brownstone building and immediately see the basement lights are on. We look at each other and say "no way ... someone actually broke in here????" So we enter through what is an open door and begin to clear each room of the funeral home/ house. When we reach the basement and open what is a brightly lit body prep storage and prep room we are immediately confronted with several bodies on tables covered in different stages of undress with bed sheets on them.
Our attention is drawn to a very startled naked man holding playing cards . I look at him and simply say "What the heck and who the heck are you?? He looks at me and my partner and nervously responds ... "I'm the Mortician" .... wait .... "Who are you?? And what the heck are you doing??? "I'm the mortician and I'm working and playing cards " "Playing cards ??? My partner says ... "Yeah cards ...see????"... holding his hands out displaying the deck of cards.
I look around and see each of the 4-5 bodies have their own hands dealt to them ...
We asked for His ID .... verified he belonged there and proceeded to leave with a queasy feeling laughing out butts off.
My partner looks at me and says how should we mark this job.... ????
Best job in the world..... I miss the clowns but not the circus. nforcr
Be Naked.
GiphyNot a police officer, but I know one.
I'm sure he has a million stories, but my favorite that he's told me was the time he was called to a local Mexican restaurant. When he arrived, he was directed to a Cadillac in the parking lot that was a rockin', if you get my drift.
He knocks on the window, and a butt naked 80 year old woman gets out, pissed off that someone interrupted her getting laid. Her 80 year old husband was laying naked in the vehicle still.
This old woman stood outside of her vehicle, completely naked, for a solid 5 minutes, arguing w my friend about how she should be able to get laid whenever she wants.
There was more to the story of course, but as I'm not the first hand story teller, I can't do the story the proper justice it deserves.
He didn't arrest them, even though she stood naked outside for 5 minutes, so she got off easy (pun intended). alwaysmyfault
Still with me....
I babysat for a cop (2 toddler daughters)(10/10 kids, cute and very affectionate) and he told me of one story where he was called to this old lady's home. When they got there they found her husbands rotting body under a pile of newspapers. So apparently the lady had really bad dementia and had thought the husband was a robber and hit him in the back of the head with a rolling pin.
The poor dementia lady went back to bed and he was dead in the morning. She didn't know what to do, so she covered his body with newspapers and somehow managed to survive on her own for a few days. A neighbor started to worry and came to check up on them. The neighbor was the one to call the police. That story haunted me for like a month. ratsoh
"Woodchucks"
I just asked my dad, who was a cop for 30+ years.
He told me he pulled over a car full of "Woodchucks", older drunkards from a rural area in the Northeast area of the US. He was in his late 20's at the time, so in good shape compared to the drunks. I think there were 4. While my dad was processing the driver, he had him in the front seat of his car. Once the guy realized he was probably going to be arrested, he started ripping the radio and anything he could grab out of his car. He grabbed my dad and pulled him out of the passenger side of his vehicle and onto the ground.
My dad landed between this guy's legs and into some kind of leg-lock chokehold. The guy, during all this, has started to scream to his friends to get his gun and kill him. Once he has him in a leg-lock, he looks down and says "now I'm gonna kill you." before he starts to choke my dad with his legs. I guess backup showed up just in time, or had been there, the deputy at the time hit him in the head with a baton and sent him out. tenthplagueb
I went home and hugged my son.
Did a stop on a pretty obvious dope car. Driver is tweaking on meth. Passenger also tweaking and is a female that weighs 95 pounds while being 5'8 or so. She looked like a concentration camp victim. She's offering to provide oral services in exchange for her release. Obviously I decline.
Guy in the back appears to be asleep. I get his ID from the tweaking driver as my backup arrives. We get all 3 out, I can see needles all over the car. The guy in the back wakes up and gets out. Dispatch gives us returns, letting us know the back passenger is has a parole violation (he was released early from prison IYDK) for felon in possession of a firearm.
The dispatcher was supposed to warn us before giving the return out loud over the radio but didn't in this case. Old dude stands up and reaches in his waistband. I see this happening in slow motion and realize it's about to get real. My partner swings from around the other side of the vehicle where he was talking to one of the other suspects. I start to yell gun in time for my partner to straight up linebacker this dude, which we got into cuffs. Had a .45 in the waistband.
I went home and hugged my son, who was 1 at the time.
Edit: was out at a family function. I am about to start replying to all the messages. Thank you.
Second edit: I have a few more good ones if anyone cares to hear them. Also, I don't work patrol anymore. I'm a detective with my agency now.
I posted another story below. Thanks for the positive words. 99% of cops are out there every day doing honest work to keep you safe. copswithguns
67 Stitches In....
Not a cop, my dad was. Was backing up a situation where guy allegedly was shooting up on the street. When he came over, guy was arguing with the officer on scene, definitely not being aggressive in any way, or suspicious though. Long story short, the other two officers on scene got aggressive with him and grabbed him and slammed him multiple times into a car parked on the street and he had the get 67 stitches. My dad told the chief and ended up having to quit since everyone was pissed at him for doing so. madiison1461
No Answers.
I legitimately considered law enforcement as a career path, and regularly chat up officers in public or social situations. I used to ask questions like this.
A former Vegas officer told me a story about he and his partner going to break up a party with some expected underage alcohol and narcotics activity.
While there someone brought up an unusual van down the street. They went expecting more kids nonsense. It contained gang members waiting to kill someone leaving the party.
He was shot multiple times. Spent months in the hospital. His partner was murdered. Dead before EMT arrived.
I stopped asking after this answer. official_fox_news
Hey Ace.
GiphyAnswered a disturbance call to find a drunk dude climbing in a car while his wife screamed at him. She smacked his windshield with a bat, destroying it as he peeled out. We followed him maybe .5 mile with the sirens and lights while he drove with his head out the window Ace Ventura style. Poor bastard didn't get his head back inside in time passing a UPS truck and his head pieces ended up on my windshield. SgtSavage110
St. Peter?
Responded with my partner to a welfare check on an elderly gentleman. Knocked on the door, walked in and couldn't find him. Went to his garage and found him sound asleep behind the wheel. He tried to commit suicide by asphyxiation. Thing is, he only had a small amount of fuel and it was a new Civic. He was pissed when he woke up that I wasn't St Peter. Risin_bison
Showing Up....
Showed up to a call once about a baby crying nonstop for hours and no sign of an adult being home. We went into the house and I followed the sound of the crying baby upstairs to find an 18 month old with her arms duct taped to her crib. I undid the duct tape and it was obvious this was not the first time it had happened. I brought the child downstairs and outside. The mom was walking up the sidewalk of the housing unit and flipped crazy on me.
I handed the child off to a patrol and cuffed her. It was the most satisfying clicking of handcuffs I had ever heard.
Edit: This happened when I was in the Army as an MP. The father of the child was deployed at the time. From what I heard, he was granted permission to return home and take custody of the child. They got a divorce and I believe he won custody. I don't know what happened to her as far as a sentencing or jail time. dogballtaster
Put it Back.
GiphyMy dad friend who is a cop in NC told me that some teen tried to steal an electric shopping cart from Target with a ton of crap in it and tried to outrun the cops but the cart only went 5mph for like 25 meters then the battery died. The cop just asked him to push the cart back since it died and return the stolen items. Bigbadballer88
With an Axe.
Dad tells the story of a guy he knew who kept getting caught for writing bad checks. He was such a big guy he wouldn't fit in the police car so they would just meet him at the magistrate office and write him tickets. (I know, some trust) but a year or so after this kept happening, he got a call that there was a domestic dispute at the house. So they rush over there and he's got an axe in his hand sitting on the front porch all bloody.
They approach and tell him to put the axe down which he does and proceeded to tell them that his wife is in the bathtub, or at least her head is. But guy was completely open and cooperative, didn't run or anything. Asked if he could meet them at the magistrate office and dad was like yeah nah dawg you're gonna have to get in the car this time.
I was in shock....
While serving in South Korea, my team was on patrol in the local drinking village when we heard someone drunkenly singing the US national anthem. At a loss for where this individual was, we finally looked up and there he was.... tight rope walking on the ledge of a building 3 stories up. This is when precision of language is of vital importance...especially when dealing with a drunk. The sergeant on scene said, "Hey, come down here!" The drunkard said, "On my way!" And proceeded to step off.
Under the impression I was about to witness my first death, I was in shock. Through some bit of weird luck/science, he glanced the hood of a slightly misted Daewoo truck and slid down to the ground. We ran over to him and he said, "Hey guys, how's it going?" He had open fractures on both femurs and after some makeshift splinting and controlling the bleeding, he was transported to the nearest hospital. Soju is a hell of a thing. Reddit
"I'm not crazy!"
GiphyDefinitely the time that an older, mentally ill woman tried to burn her house down because she believed that was the only way to disarm the atom bomb in her attic. I got her to walk with me to my car and get in the back by telling her it was the only place she'd be safe. When I got in and started driving, she started yelling that I couldn't take her to jail because she hadn't done anything wrong.
I calmly informed her that we were going to the hospital, which prompted even louder yelling of, "I'm not crazy!" I replied, "I don't think you're crazy." She screamed, "Then why are you taking me to the hospital?!" I told her, "Well, you were next to that atom bomb, right? We gotta get you checked for radiation poisoning." Her eyes got wide and she said, "Oh crap! I didn't think about that, you better hurry!"
For you Rookie.
First time my brother arrested someone was really funny. He and his training officer were working the graveyard shift and got a call for suspicious activity at a house. They arrive and the homeowner says they're is someone sneaking around his house that shouldn't be there. So they start looking around with their flashlights, grass is really overgrown in the backyard and my brother notice one of those Fisher Price kid's car (yellow & red plastic car) moving on its own. They found their guy, naked and high AF trying to hide under the kids toy and crawl away. Training officer says,"Well, he's your's rookie", had my brother cuff him (guy didn't want to go to jail and put up a naked fight) and take the guy to jail. j2142b
In a bunny suit....
Attended a structural fire in a downtown high rise. Was tasked with evacuating local residents in case the building collapsed.
Third house I went to, the guy answers in a full bunny suit with gas mask propped up in his head. English wasn't his first language, and as I was trying to communicate that he needed to evacuate, it became clear he was running a meth lab inside. Arrested Asian Walter White, and then had to sit in the shadow of the structure fire keeping eyes on the house while waiting for CLEAR (clandestine lab) team to show up.
In that time fire trucks basically surrounded my vehicle so I couldn't move it, even after CLEAR team moved in. Walter had his lawyer call in my pc, and it was about 10 hours before we could head back to cells. I've never had to pee so badly in my life. Philosorunner
Situations....
Former PO, I'll try not to make this long: Early morning about 1 hour before I had to end my shift, dispatch said to go lights and sirens to an address. A pit bull was actively mauling an elderly woman. I get there and the woman is practically hanging on to life, blood all over the home. I tased the dog, twice before it responded. A K-9 unit had a muzzle and a strong leash. Dog was eventually put down, woman survived.
Second situation was an active shooter with officer down. It was a real crap show. Dude was off his rocker, shot at a fellow officer. This officer ended up retiring after this, but I and many others thought he was dead.
Third situation. I respond to domestic violence call, shootout with husband, he shoots me 3x and all 3 hit my vest. This was about 6 months after the second situation. I ended my police career after this. KingNebby
"ghost"
GiphyI know a guy, who was a cop in Texas when I was in middle school. He told me about this one time this woman called 911 because her house was haunted. He preceded to put handcuffs on an invisible "ghost" and acted like he was putting it in the police car. austingarrett