People Share Their Best 'You Either Die The Hero Or Live Long Enough To Become The Villain' Experiences
"You either die the hero or live long enough to become the villain."
Though not necessarily a universal truth, all of us have witnessed unfortunate moments in our lives where we've seen this saying become a reality.
Be it seeing our favorite public figures take a serious fall from grace, someone we know and admire eventually disappointing us in a devastating manner, or even seeing ourselves turn into someone we promised we'd never become.
One Redditor was curious to hear people's examples of this saying coming to light, either from a personal experience or seeing it happen to a well-known, public figure, leading them to ask:
"Who is your example of 'you either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villain'?"
Jim Jones
"Jim Jones."
"He originally stood up for civil rights when it was really unpopular."
"Was hospitalized and accidentally placed in the black ward."
"When the doctors found out, they tried to move him, but he refused."
"Then he became a cult leader and used his power and influence to end the lives of a thousand people."- Crvsby
Earning a position of power
"Working in restaurant kitchens."
"You either burn out young, or become the boss that everyone hates."
"There's exceptions, but that's the rule."- grandpas_old_crow
Henry Heimlich
"Henry Heimlich, inventor of the Heimlich Maneuver."
"Made up a bunch of untested uses for it, treating people having asthma attacks, and drowning victims were the two I remember that he publicly talked up."
"Later, he funded an experiment that involved injecting people with Malaria to see if it would treat other conditions.
"The experiment was found to be unethical by American review boards, so he conducted them in Ethiopia." - User Deleted
Philippe Petain
"Philippe Petain."
"In WW1 he led the French to victory at Verdun, one of the worst battles in human history."
"In WW2, after France was beaten, Petain was the head of state of Vichy France."
"Guy went from the Lion of Verdun to the biggest Nazi collaborator in France."- arthuranymoredonuts
Our bodies
"Every organ until it gets cancer."- SuperBaconjam
Conor McGregor
"Conor McGregor."
"He had the whole country behind him here in Ireland at one point bar people who thought combat sport is grotesque."
"He was witty, original, backing himself up and having a Hollywood like rise to stardom."
"Now he's someone who the whole country is ashamed of, goes punching old men, clearly sleeps around on his wife while she's at home with the kids, just a walking caricature of himself."
"He didn't listen to his own advice."
"Get in."
"Get rich."
"Get out."- StephenPigot2020
Turning into our parents
"My dad used to annoy me by calling my Pokemon cards 'Pokey-Mans'."
"Now my kids have them and I do the same thing and it annoys the sh*t out of them."
"Thanks for the (Pokeyman) gold!"- rumpel4skinOU
Benedict Arnold
"Benedict Arnold."
"Almost died during the revolutionary way, if I recall correctly, and if he had he would have been remembered a huge hero, and a martyr."
"Instead he lived and changed sides, and is remembered only for his being a traitor."- uniqueperson22
Be it someone we knew quite intimately, or someone we admired from a far, it is always heartbreaking to see someone evolve from someone we love, to someone we utterly hate.
Heroes aren't always the most interesting characters in a story.
in fact, a piece of the recipe that makes an interesting overall story is a villain that isn't completely horrible. There's something about them that draws you to them.
Sometimes, you even end up liking these villains better.
u/benami7777 asked:
Which villain did you secretly hope would win?
Here were some of those answers.
LazyTown Ain't So Lazy
My name is Robby Rotten. I'm 43 years old. My house is in the northeast section of lazy town, where all the villas are, and I am not married. I work as an employee for the villian villain department stores, and I get home every day by 8 PM at the latest. I don't smoke, but I occasionally drink. I'm in bed by 11 PM, and make sure I get eight hours of sleep, no matter what. After having a glass of warm milk and doing about twenty minutes of stretches before going to bed, I usually have no problems sleeping until morning.
Just like a baby, I wake up without any fatigue or stress in the morning. I was told there were no issues at my last check-up. I'm trying to explain that I'm a person who wishes to live a very quiet life. I take care not to trouble myself with any enemies, like winning and losing, that would cause me to lose sleep at night. That is how I deal with society, and I know that is what brings me happiness. Although, if I were to fight I wouldn't lose to anyone.
To Protect The World From Devastation
Team Rocket. They deserve something for being so dedicated. They've been chasing after the same Pikachu for over 20 years!
*Mutley Laugh*
Dick Dastardly from the wacky races. The only time he actually won a race he was disqualified because of slow motion footage showing him extending the nose of his vehicle to do so, which is greatly unfair because when the lumberjack did something similar in a previous episode (by stretching his neck to put himself in front) he wasn't disqualified for doing so.
For Helen
Hector was the actual hero in The Iliad. He fought Achilles knowing he was fighting basically a demi-god so there was no chance to win. But he did it anyway to protect his (complete idiot) little brother and his home.
Achilles was given literal cheat codes to fighting and was still vain, arrogant and selfish.
The Time Ahead
Roy in Blade Runner.
The replicants are literally just trying to survive - every act of violence by them is defensive except the for deaths of Tyrell and Sebastian. And even those killings are somewhat warranted given the two of them are deeply responsible for creating a literal slave undercaste.
TLDR: Blade runner portrays a failed slave uprising.
Keep This Park Open
Jurassic Park. I'm not sure if they were the bad guys, I wanted the park to win and keep the dinosaurs contained. I just wanted a movie where the plot just followed people around the park and park employees said things like "Looks like we've had a power failure in the dino electric fence! Oh good the emergency power kicked in. Send maintenance down to check it out". Turns out it was just a bad sensor that needed to be replaced.
Okay, I GET It
General Hummel, from "The Rock"
Dude's actions were extreme, but he was doing it for the right reasons. He and his men did clandestine operations for the US military, and when his men did their job, fought, died for their country, the country then turned their back and didn't provide the benefits for the men and their families.
I wish the government would have just paid what they owed, and fixed the situation from the jump.
Yeah, We Did Too
I didn't really root for him, but I sympathized with Erik Killmonger in Black Panther. That "the child who is not embraced by the village will burn it down to feel its warmth" image kinda got to me.
Elementary, My Dear Watson
Moriarty from the Sherlock TV show. Why did he just suicide himself? Utter waste of a great character. I hoped he would succeed at his plan.
Poor Old Man
The Ice King in Adventure Time. Yeah, he's up there with Bowser on being a princess kidnapper, but if the episode Princess Monster Wife was anything to go by, he's just a sweet old man who wants companionship.
People Explain Which Villains They Actually Sympathize With
Villains are generally supposed to be horrid and reviled by the audience, who usually see them through the eyes of the hero of the story. Not all villains are particularly villainous, however.
Some are fairly relatable from the start, while others grow throughout the story and become more sympathetic over time.
Still others seem more relatable as we get older and learn how the real world works.
Reddit user NorthCatan asked the denizens of r/AskReddit for info on the villains they sympathize with most.
"Which villain do you sympathize for, and why?"
20.
GiphyCarrie - cause when you're a sixteen year old teenager girl and everyone treats you like sh*t for no reason and when it's prom and you find out you win prom queen but it's just a cruel joke and pig blood is dumped on you , who wouldn't do what she did.
Jason - being bullied by a group of kids cause of how you look then pushed into a lake and drown when counsellors are supposed to help you.
19.
Galactus, The Devourer of Worlds. He destroys worlds and saps up the life-force of entire populations but after all he's just an integral part of the universe and as required as other primal forces.
18.
Sandman from Spider-Man 3. Yes, he killed Uncle Ben, but damn. His last scene in the movie makes me emotional when I remember it. Dude just wanted to help his daughter, man. His confession with Peter just shows how remorseful he is for doing that to Peter.
17.
Robby Rotten. How dare that damn Sportacus try to get me off the couch and be active!!!
What's really heartfelt is what Stefan Karl (late actor for Robbie Rotten) said in an AMA a few years ago to this question:
" Way deep down inside, what does Robbie really think about the residents of LazyTown?"
"I wish I could be their friend"
16.
Jack Nicholson in "As Good as it Gets."
People don't understand how bad real OCD is and how it changes people and the pain they suffer.
If you hate which side of the bed you sleep on and think it's OCD, maybe it is, but you have no idea how bad it gets.
15.
Spoilers for a 24 year old movie ahead. The villain from "The Rock", General Hummel, was just trying to secure military benefits for his soldiers killed in black ops authorized by the US government. This money was supposed to come from a slush fund from illegal weapon sales also perpetrated by the government itself, AND his threat against San Francisco was initially a bluff. He was basically trying to look after his men,but became desperate after exhausting the proper channels.
General Hummel was an antihero, rather than a villain. I think he was probably one of the most conflicted (and well written/performed) movie antagonists of the nineties.
14.
The Wicked Witch of the West. Dorothy killed her sister, stole her shoes and refused to give them back
13.
The Boss in Metal Gear Solid 3, because she was only a villain because she had to be. That was the role assigned to her. She was loyal to her mission and to her country until the very end.
"Snake, history will never know what she did. No one will ever learn the truth. Her story... her debriefing, will endure only in your heart. Everything she did, she did for her country. She sacrificed her life and her honor for her native land. She was a real hero. She was a true patriot."
These Gestures Are Offensive In Other Countries | George Takei’s Oh Myyy
People explain the friendly gestures in one country that are offensive in another. It's imperative to do a little research about the destinations and culture...12.
Whaa? Nobody has said Wile E Coyote?? That poor guy's entire purpose in life is to fail
11.
Doofenshmirtz, he was a hard working man in a difficult childhood always being overshadowed by his younger brother and a baking soda volcano. He has broke the boundaries of science that almost seems impossible but is ignored throughout his career as a scientist. As every man does, he seems to have trouble finding a place in the world, so he tries to commit to poetry only for that dream to be snatched away and crushed in front of him. He was a man with a vision, a dream to take control of a small government, to change the lives of many surroundings and many people. But desperate times call for desperate measures as he's forced to take drastic measures to fulfill his dreams. He wanted to be a loving father and give his child the childhood he never had. He was a visionary at his time that society didn't allow which demonizes him to a gross pulsating image of a man that could've brought hope and light to a better future.
10.
GiphyPain/Nagato. He was being manipulated from the very start, lost his parents and friends to a war being fought in his village, and thought his whole mission was to change the world when in reality it was just to do someone else's dirty work
9.
Zuko. My first time watching, even before his arc, it was just so heart wrenching seeing him doing everything just to be loved and accepted by his people, his father.
8.
Kronk. The man just pulled the wrong lever...
Kronk wasn't a villain. He was a sweet man. Kuzco wasn't the good guy either.
7.
Captain Hook
Captain Hook must remember
Not to scratch his toes.
Captain Hook must watch out
And never pick his nose.
Captain Hook must be gentle
When he shakes your hand.
Captain Hook must be careful
Openin' sardine cans
And playing tag and pouring tea
And turnin' pages of his book.
Lots of folks I'm glad I ain't--
But mostly Captain Hook!
-Shel Silverstein
Just recently watched Disney's Peter Pan for the first time since I was a child. Not sure if it is a sign I am old but my girlfriend and I both agreed that we didn't think Hook was that bad and that maybe Peter is actually the real villain. He just bullies Hook and antagonizes him the whole time!
6.
Medusa
Punished for being assaulted by Poseidon in Athena's Temple and being beautiful.
Her two sisters stood by her side through thick and thin and fought to keep her safe from all intruders.
Perseus creeps in while they were fast asleep on a bed and silently beheads Medusa.
He then cowardly escapes, leaving the cries of her sisters and becomes a hero.
I really wish this story didn't exist; or that she was accurately portrayed not as the villain, but a victim
The moral of this story is... the gods are a**holes.
5.
Baldur from God of War 4.
He was the product of an unloving and abusive marriage between Odin and Freya and Freya, after the end of their marriage to Odin, was stripped away of everything she had: her freedom, the trust of her people, her spirit. The only thing she had left was Baldur, but seeing that he would die a needless death in the future, she cursed him with immortality, resulting in him literally not being able to feel anything. This curse, while meant to protect him, drove him insane with rage against his mother.
4.
GiphySkeletor, the true heir to the throne and rightful ruler of Eternia. Passed up for being mixed-race, so he acted out - causing an accident that disfigured and fatally wounded him. He was left for dead by a family with magic powers, having to resort to serving evil and living out the rest of his days as a skeletal shadow of his former self.
3.
King Dedede from the kirby franchise
The dude gets possessed every Tuesday to the point where he's not doing any evil villain stuff, also he cares and tries to protect his kingdom, just take a look at Kirby's adventure, he took the star rod from the fountain of dreams to protect dreamland from Nightmare himself
1.
Invader Zim. I just want him to win so badly because I want every single member of his species, including the Tallest, to realize he is somewhat capable (although he is at times his own worst enemy). Also Doofenshmirtz because despite his increasingly tragic backstories he was an amazing father to Vanessa.
A complex villain is always more interesting than a one-sided evil that has no underlying motivation.
Sometimes, the villains are even sort of in the right--the heroes keep the peace for the sake of keeping the peace, but are they really doing the right thing? Or would the villain have been better winning?
One Redditor asked not_anakin asked:
Which villain actually had a good motivation?
Here were some of those answers.
Bad Politics
Ed Harris's character in The Rock. Ex-vet wanted a decent funeral for some of his fallen comrades plus I think a 100 mil in compensation for their families
Spoiler alert: the president said no
Who Went First
The Machines in the Matrix.
The Second Renaissance showed that it was humans who struck first and tried to destroy the sentient Machines once they became intelligent. The Machines removed themselves from society and created their own city 1-0 in the middle of the desert to try to allay human fears but it still didn't work.
Humans were the aggressors. The Machines wanted to protect themselves.
And the Machines are not even evil. Instead of just exterminating humans or chopping off their heads and using their bodies as batteries they took the trouble to create a massive virtual world for us. They even tried making it a Paradise at first (according to Agent Smith) but we rejected it so they went more realistic.
Protecting Your Kind
Magneto. Having been a Holocaust survivor, it makes a lot of sense to not want to see the people you identify with once again persecuted for the circumstances of their birth.
Abandonment Issues
Luke Castellan from Percy Jackson. His motivation was that the gods didn't pay enough attention to their kids (himself included) and wanted the gods and Camp Half-Blood to recognize the children of the minor gods.
When American Healthcare Is The Real Villain
Sandman from Spider-Man 3. He just wanted a chance to see his dying daughter before she died. The only reason he robbed places was the get enough money to find treatment for her. He accidentally killed uncle Ben, and felt really bad about it, to the point where it haunted him.
For The Greater Good
Dr. Doom.
He has literally, like without a shadow of a doubt seen every single outcome of every single decision he has or will ever make. And the only way humanity survives is if he rules them and takes them on a certain path.
Yet the fantastic four keep on beating his ass down.
His rule isn't even that bad, even in the context of 'a great leap forward.' The FF just don't like him because he's just a power hungry single leader and being that and ruling the earth has historically been bad. But you know what all those other populist leaders didn't have? LITERAL DEMONSTRABLE CLAIRVOYANCE AND SUPER INTELLIGENCE.
My Life Is Over
Zemo from Captain America Civil War. Superhero battle kills everyone he cares about, destroys his city and sets his country back to the Stone Age. Then they just go home. Zemo targeted the avengers and set them up to turn on each other. A man with no powers was able to beat the Avengers.
Anti-Villain
Dr. Horrible.
He saw the lies that were being spread, the fact that those in charge were harming humanity, and wanted to make a change which, okay put him in charge, but also lead to actual change for the people.
Also, Captain Hammer is a jerk.
Walter Peck
The EPA guy in Ghostbusters was just trying to make sure their weird new technology was safe but the quippy nerds refused to comply. Turns out they didn't even have a backup generator for if it ever got unplugged.
Left Behind
Javier Bardem's character in Skyfall. Betrayed and abandoned by his own country, and subjected to years of torture. Hell, the same thing happened to Bond at the beginning of Die Another Day, but MI6 eventually got him back whereas they just forgot Silva existed.
Snap
I'm going to say it: Thanos (MCU version).
He isn't wrong that if something doesn't change, we will deplete our resources and things will get bad. The snap is random, so there is a fairness to it and the people dusted didn't seem to suffer.
I don't consider him a villain, just misguided in how he addresses the problem. He truly believes what he is doing is the only way (and it probably is).
The comic version is different.
- Quagmeyer69
Couldn't he have just snapped his fingers and doubled the resources available?
In the universe, there is more than enough room for Thanos to have put the extra resources. Or *snap* everyone only requires half as much resources now as before?
- IWaaasPiiirate
Understandably Annoyed
Honestly, while his motivations and sole goal to destroy everything that annoys him is a little screwy, I can't help but feel bad for Shigaraki from My Hero Academia.
Most argue he's a spoiled man-child, but he can't help it! He has a power he can't control that killed his family and broke him. From then on All For One spoiled, manipulated, and twisted him.
On the other hand Stain has a pretty good motivation. A majority of heroes are power hungry or fame seeking to a degree and while he kinda took things to the extreme by killing them, he believes in a better world.
He's willing to sacrifice himself for his beliefs, spares those who show the mettle of a real hero, and is willing to save others. Plus his Blood Curdle Quirk looks badass.
- Smith_Disconnected
Ghosts Would Have Been Safer
Walter Peck from Ghost Busters.
I thought he was such a dick as a child, but as an engineering major the Ghostbusters did some seriously dangerous and illegal sh*t!
They build a " lazer containment grid" which I can only infer as crossing particle bombardment rays; so they were containing ghosts by literally building a wall out of nuclear radiation! In the middle of Manhattan! With no containment or fallout measures!
They didn't even put a saftey switch on said nuclear equipment.
- burmsrock
Morgana
Morgana from the TV series Merlin.
All she wanted to start with was for magical people not to be persecuted. She took it too far, though...
- [Reddit]
The Grey Area Of Pitch Black
Richard B. Riddick AND William Johns. I mean, they were really both bad guys right?
Johns is a merc. His payday is bringing back Riddick to slam; one of the most notorious escape artists/murderers in the Verse.
And Johns knows what he's up against with Riddick. It's kill or be killed if Riddick has his glowing eyes on you. Self preservation, pretty good motivator there.
Then you have Riddick, who was literally only really responsible for one single death in that movie, and that's Johns. Because he knew (as did we) that Johns would betray their agreement as another bad guy acting out of rational self interest and self preservation.
So, ironically, Riddick kills Johns out of desperation and survival (note similar motives to Johns). So our lines between hero and villain are now blurred with these two. Their motives are similar, how can one be a villain and the other be a hero?
While Riddick is clearly the main focus of Pitch Black, you'd have one hell of a time arguing that he's a hero.
- XxImperatorxX
Peace
Dusan Gavrich in The Peacemaker (1997). Love that movie.
His entire motivation was that the war and conflict in his country (the Bosnian War) which killed his wife and child was caused by the United Nations. His goal was to destroy the United Nations to stop them from interfering in any other country. 'Leave us to find our own destiny.'
His character was a sympathetic one, doing what he (and others) felt was necessary - using a small, stolen nuclear weapon - to prevent these large tragedies from ever happening again.
Great movie, amazing car chase scene, great performances from Nicole Kidman and George Clooney, and all around one of my favorites.
- burtonsimmons
He Wasn't Evil
Green Goblin from the first Spider-Man movie.
Norman was pressured into finishing the serum, took an incomplete serum that made him insane, got ousted from his own company, and borderline neglected Harry in support of Peter.
He actually shown hints of remorse near the end of the movie.
He wasn't evil, just insane. He was more of a victim than a villain.
- [Reddit]
The Pinnacle of Decadence
Ra's Al Ghul from Batman Begins.
He believed Gotham was beyond saving, and he was a check against human corruption. He says "Every time a civilization reaches the pinnacle of its decadence we return to restore the balance".
His plan even worked before! He said "We sacked Rome, loaded trade ships with plague rats, burnt London to the ground".
Also, Liam Neeson can punch me all day I love him.
- ZAQWSX6669
Kung Fu F-ed Up
Tai Lung from Kung Fu Panda.
Let's be fair, while it comes to light why Oogway chose Po eventually, the fact that Tai Lung got the shaft pretty badly the way he did is reason for him to be furious.
- AduroTri
Rooting For A Killer
Dexter.
I mean, sure he liked killing, but he was killing really bad people. He wasn’t running around raping and murdering innocent people for fun.
He was ridding the world (well, Miami) of the most evil people in society.
It was weird to feel like I didn’t want him caught and like I was celebrating his killings. He’s a killer- that’s objectively abhorrent and wrong.
But it didn’t feel like it was wrong. Such a mind f*ck.
- alsoaprettybigdeal
A difference in perspective can be really eyeopening!
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