Woman Wonders If It's Out Of Line To Offer To Adopt Her Sisters Baby And Seeks Advice From The Internet
It can be a difficult conversation to ask somebody to willingly give up their child, even if you believe that that is in the child's best interests.
u/chernandez0999 told us the story:
Would it be out of line for me (25F) and my husband (29M) to offer to adopt my sister's (22F) unborn child?
So my husband and I had our first child about a year ago and definitely want to add 1-2 more children to our family but via adoption. I had a horrible pregnancy and our daughter got some genetic problems she inherited from her dad's side of the family and we would prefer not to risk passing it on to subsequent children.
My sister just found out she is pregnant with her 3rd child with her boyfriend of 1.5 months. She is 22 with a 2 year old, 4 month old, and the baby in utero. Her boyfriend doesn't have a job, she is on a leave of absence from work for mental health issues (Borderline Personality Disorder and PPD). None of her kids were planned and she's not yet divorced from her husband whom she had the first 2 kids with (She left her husband for her now BF during her maternity leave). She makes $16/hr and is about to have her home foreclosed and car repossessed because she can't afford them along with daycare and other expenses. My sister has expressed interest in placing the new baby up for adoption to our mother but not yet mentioned it to me. My husband and I have considered offering to adopt her child but I'm not sure if it would be out of line to offer this arrangement to her?
TLDR: Sister (22F) pregnant with 3rd child. The father is her bf of 1.5 months. She mentioned placing the baby up for adoption to our mother but not me. Can I offer to adopt her baby?
Here was some of the advice she got.
I would probably ask my mom to broach the idea with my sister, as she is the one that the sister confided in. She could just ask if your sister would like that idea, if you were interested. If the answer is yes then you talk to her, if no then you avoid an awkward conversation.
In family adoptions can be really tricky, because the lines are blurred. Your child will have full blooded siblings that they will see all the time. Your sister will have to see her child that she gave up all the time. It can get messy.
I think that you can offer, but if she refuses, please don't be offended. It might not be the best arrangement for her, or what she thinks is best for the child.
Is it out of line to have the conversation? No.
But you have (HAVE to) have some very very clear boundaries with yourself and your sister if you do.
First for the conversation itself - if she says no, if she rejects it out of hand, or says yes and then changes her mind, that's the end of it.
If you did adopt the baby - it would have to be yours. Do it legally through the proper channels. "No takesie backsies" is literally the most important rule you can have once the baby is legally yours. The baby would have to be your child, not 'on loan', or it will end in tears and a broken family. Everyone would need to think of and treat the baby as if it had been bourn by you.
My parents almost (as in, days away from it being formalised, we had the baby in arms, we were all sold on the idea and expecting it to happen and bonded to her) adopted my cousin's daughter when I was a teenager. At the last second my aunt (a classic narc if you hang out on RBN) realised that if the adoption went through legally she would 'lose' control of the baby, that my mother and father wouldn't stand for any interference in raising her. Because her daughter (baby's mother) was underage, she was able to nix the whole thing. It was spiteful, it was horrible, it took a very long time for my parents to recover. The baby was ultimately given to strangers that my aunt thought she could manipulate - ironically, they played nice just until the papers were inked, then took the baby and ran right out of my aunt's circle of influence. My almost-sister is now a preteen and I hear she's doing well, but we still miss her in my family. It always feels like someone is missing.
I know how painful this can be if it falls to pieces, so it is worth really thinking hard about what kind of family you have, what sort of people your sister and her boyfriend are. Both have to agree. Both have to surrender parental rights. They will have an enormous amount of power over you until the adoption is legalised - and they might struggle to give up that power after the fact. Sit down with your husband and have a talk about what concessions you would be willing to make before you speak to your sister - she will have some conditions, and it's better to know how far you're willing to compromise before you start negotiating.
It is worth having the conversation, but your sister would need to be very very clear that she would have no right to input on your raising of the baby. It comes down to whether that's something that would work within your family dynamic.
Hi, I'm replying because this happened in my family exactly like the scenario you're describing.
Basically my mom was like your sister: young, irresponsible, and having lots of kids. I was the first child my mom had by her first boyfriend and my aunt (mom's sister) loved me to bits but hated the way my mom was raising me (poverty, barely holding down jobs, etc.). So when my mom got pregnant again by a totally different boyfriend, my aunt was pissed. So about a year after my sister was born, my aunt adopted her.
(1) I still call my sister "my sister" even though she is legally my cousin. We are both adults now, both went to college, are very happy with our lots, and I'm going to be a bridesmaid in her wedding!
(2) my sister had a lovely stable childhood that, as the eldest who just had to deal with being raised by a crappy mom, I was resentful about for a while. I often wondered why my aunt picked my little sister over me for adoption. But that passed by high school and I just sort of got over it.
(3) my mom has never gotten over it. She feels guilty everytime my sister/cousin calls her "aunt" instead of "mom"
(4) my mom and her sister (my responsible aunt) have a bad relationship still. But tbh I don't care. I still love my aunt and if my mom 25+ years later still doesn't want to grow up that's on her. I personally believe my aunt was very generous.
Anyway I hope this helps in some way! It isn't a crazy thing to do and I think for the child it can actually be really beneficial as it was for my sister/cousin!
Don't think this is a good idea. Your mom adopting is different because she is the grandma. You adopting as the aunt makes it harder. You'll want to raise a child your own way- and your sister coming in at any time to disrupt that wouldn't be Stable for the child. It's so tricky because she could change her mind later on...
So... this is a tough one because it's also quite emotional. Since I am assuming that she only discussed this with your mother, don't mention it unless she brings it up with you. Thinking her trust was betrayed like that would not be good. If she talks to you about it, maybe talking to her a couple days or a week after she confides in you would be appropriate. I can't tell you if your sister will think it's out of line however. If she is serious about this and likes you as a parent then it would hopefully provide a lot of peace of mind for her.
I don't think it would be a better idea than adopting from elsewhere. Your sister has some mental health issues and I can see some problems arising. Even if yo I fully legally adopt her child, she will likely still see herself as the mother and try to co-parent. She may feel entitled to make decisions or drop by unannounced. At worst, she may change her mind in the future and decide she wants the child back. While you would have legal rights, it would not be easy to navigate that situation
There was a similar situation that occurred in my family, but with a cousin and an aunt. My aunt and uncle are very well off and are good people, so when my cousin got pregnant, they offered to adopt her baby. She already had two other children who she did not have custody over, no job, and no steady living situation. However, they had one stipulation, THEY would be the baby's parents, not my cousin. My cousin was free to see the baby as much as any other family member would, but she would not parent the child at all. My cousin refused to do this, and eventually got the baby taken away by the state.
Not saying that it cannot be successful in some situations, but there has to be a clear definition of who is raising the child. Your sister would have to treat this child like a niece/nephew, not a child, which could be difficult.
Totally out of line in my opinion. I can see your logic but you are in the throws of your own emotions and you need to chill and clear your head.
Unfortunately, both the child and your sister (and her other children) would likely come to deeply resent that you would rather help by splitting a family, rather than help by supporting your sister to be a good mother to all of her children and fighting to keep her family together.
Your fertility issues are guiding you towards ideas that no one would recommend, our court systems, child protection, medical institutions etc spend Yonkers researching and trying to understand the best interest of the child. And it's always to stay with mum unless circumstances are extenuating, and in such an instance you couldn't just leave her other kids in that situation.
You are too close to the situation with your own personal issues going on, so it was a good idea to ask for advice. But also let these institutions and some facts about child welfare help balance your personal attachment to the issue.
I would not want to add a disabled child to your family when you've already got one child with health issues.
If you think the baby will be healthy, I think you could offer it, but I'd only do it if you sister gets her tubes tied. She's already got two children from a previous relationship and is pregnant by her boyfriend of 1.5 months and she's only 22. That is not normal, acceptable, or healthy. If you could convince her she is in no position to have more children, already has two and will struggle enough with those due to her BPD, and she gets her tubes tied, she'll at least not make her situation worse.
When looking at a resume, it's easy to understand how prospective employers will assume someone is very intelligent based on their education and past experience.
But one shouldn't only assume someone's intelligence based on what they read.
More often than not, one can tell rather quickly that someone possesses above-average intelligence, based on how they speak, how they behave, or other telling details.
Redditor PadWanKenobi was curious to hear what people felt were the tell tale signs they were in the company of a possible genius, leading them to ask:
"What’s a sign of extremely high intelligence?"
"Ability to intuitively and quickly understand complex systems and how lots of parts relate in a coherent whole."
"Like I work with some people who just keep tons of concepts in their head and easily integrate new information into their understanding of those concepts."
"They immediately know what questions they should be asking to better understand."
"And these are things they're currently working on, not like things they spent time studying in school over years."
"They just have a very strong ability to synthesize new information into their understanding."
"I sit in meetings distracted and confused having forgotten what we talked about in the previous meetings, and these folks just consistently have a solid handle on everything."- Ok-Control-787
Innate Problem Solvers
"They know when not to solve a problem."
"This took me a while to understand but the smartest people I know do this."
"It could be a really simple thing like ignoring emails from people asking for help."
"The supervisor or boss might have a quick and easy solution for the situation but instead of just handing it to the person that asked they let them figure it out on their own."
"They know who they can do this with and when to do it."
"If they did that with all of their underlings it would just create a mess."
"Another example that I can think of is planned chaos."
"Some people can predict exactly where things will go wrong and they could fix it before it creates a problem."
"They don't because nobody ever notices what's going on in the background when things are working perfectly."
"Once things fails then everybody notices and if you are the one person that fixed it you become the hero."
"They can also use then chaos to reach a goal they couldn't get before if things were working correctly."
"There's many examples of this in every day life that I didn't see before until I realized what was happening."- atapesGiphy
You know what they say about people with small hands
"If your hand is smaller than your face."- FallofTheKnight
The all knowing glow.
"When someone asks you a question and you push your glasses up while light comes out of it and covers your eyes for some reason."- JonEregor
Those giveaway behavioral quirks
"Wearing glasses and saying things like 'ah yes', and 'I see' while you pensively rub your chin."- iuytrefdgh436yujhe2Thinking Reaction GIF by ABC TV + IVIEWGiphy
"When they explain something they make the people around them feel smarter, not dumber."- redkat85
Being one step ahead.
"The capacity to understand complex things, see patterns where regular people don't."- Ostepop234
"They have this tendency to make you go 'Ohhh, why didn't I think of that?' when listening to them talk."- did_it_forthelulzWhy Didnt I Think Of That Cillian Murphy GIFGiphy
An endless love of learning
"A passion for knowledge and expanding understanding of complex concepts."
"The plumber can be just as insightful as the scholar."- KatatoniK94
Of course, one shouldn't always be fooled by what they see.
As many people are masters at appearing much smarter than they are.
In fact, one important sign of super intelligence is being able to separate those who appear smart, from those who actually are.
With each passing year of a marriage, couples will often discover that while they don't love each other any less than they once did, that spark their relationship used to carry has faded.
This will often lead these couples to look for ways to spice things up a bit.
Among the more popular experiments is inviting a third member to their bedroom.
Enticing as this prospect is, however, it's also easy to be intimidated by the reality of it, or even the mere suggestion of it.
"Men, what advice do you have for men whose wives want to bring a third into the bedroom?"
Make sure you want to do it.
"You need to be completely honest with yourself, ask if this is something you want and could live with."- Dame87
Proceed with caution
"It’s like frolicking in a mine field."
"You both better be SUPER into the idea, you can’t have one person who’s reluctantly agreed to go along with it."
"And established rules."
"A threesome sounds like fun and games until you’re watching your partner make faces and sounds that you only thought were for you in your most intimate moments together, and a burning jealousy comes out of nowhere and breaks your heart."
"I’m not saying it’s automatically a bad idea and I know people do polyamory successfully, but dear god be careful."- coleosis1414
Make sure you're an active participant
"I had an ex that was adamant that she wanted to be a swinger or whatever."
"The one time I decided to roll with it, I hit it off immediately with the other dude's girlfriend and had a blast hanging out with her all night."
"The other dude was a total creep, though."
"Also, my ex could not handle the fact that someone else was giving me the slightest bit of attention."
"So, needless to say, that didn't go anywhere."
"Turns out she didn't want to be a swinger, she just wanted to have sex with other people behind my back, which she had no problems whatsoever with."- Ted_Denslow
Look out for ulterior motives
"Just remember that if you bring this up and your husband is against it, that could be the beginning of the end of your marriage."
"For a lot of people their partner saying 'I am seriously considering having sex with other people and I'm checking with you if it is ok', is a deal breaker."- gamerplays
Consider a test run?
"Go to a bar together separately."
"Watch them flirt/interact with someone else."
"If you get jealous, it's probably a bad idea to bring in a third."
"If it turns you on, go for it."- SinSlayer
Query people with experience.
"It’s something my wife and I have talked about."
"We both agreed that opening the Pandora’s box is not the way we want our relationship to go."
"While it sounds fun, we have seen way to many relationships derailed because of it."- DarthDujo
Consider going whole hog.
"Bring a 4th."- xxemrgmi
Evaluate your relationship first.
"Make sure you and your partner are secure in your own relationship before having another person join."
"Have boundaries, and no secrets."
"From my experience it doesn't usually work out in the end."- Thick-Procedure455
"Don't do it."
"For a long time, my ex harbored a fantasy of watching me have sex with another woman."
"Hey, who knows why any of us are wired the way we are?"
"After contemplating the idea together for a while, we decided to approach one of her more attractive co-workers, who had made a series of flattering comments along the lines of "you're so lucky" and "he's so good-looking'."
"She enthusiastically agreed."
"Our first meet-up was of course awkward, but the second, third and following were pretty good."
"In fact they got progressively hotter, as we all got more comfortable with each other's boundaries, erotic likes and dislikes."
"However, over a few months these occasional kinky weekends transitioned into the co-worker asking more frequently and aggressively to be invited over."
"We tried to explain that we had intended these threesomes to be rare and exotic highlights in our sex life, not regular occurrences, but she didn't take the message to heart and instead became increasingly insistent, bordering on smothering."
"After being turned down one Friday, that night she unexpectedly showed up at our door anyway, carrying a weekend bag and wearing nothing but a raincoat, stay-ups and heels."
"While that was quite a sight, it definitely creeped us out, as it made us finally realize the whole arrangement was descending into 'play Misty for me' territory."
"My ex and I agreed that her unexpected and unwelcome appearance signaled the end of future three-ways, at least until we were able to cool our own selves down, reassess, and perhaps later find a less demanding and insistent third."
"Things subsequently got very sticky at work for my wife, as her co-worker, with whom she had to interact closely, strongly resented being permabanned, and kept demanding to know 'what she'd done that was so awful'."
"Coworker eventually asked to be transferred to another office, but by the time that process was over and done, the discomfort / guilt / pressure / confusion my ex was suffering both at home and at work had begun to take its psychological toll."
"I must confess it didn't help that our own sex life was simultaneously going through a rough patch."
"Long story short, we ended our decade-long relationship less than a year after breaking off the threesomes, chiefly due to trust issues and growing sexual incompatibility, both perhaps triggered by our experimentation."
"Ever since, I've regretted agreeing to that first three-way."
"If I hadn't been so damned eager to take a bite of forbidden fruit, we might have kept our relationship intact."
"But I guess this can also be put down as what sometimes happens when you ignore that old advice, 'don't sh*t where you sleep'."- theartfulcodger
When venturing into the unknown, it's always wise to gain some first hand experience, to hear a variety of pros and cons of what you're possibly getting yourself into.
That way, deciding whether or not it's for you will become increasingly clear.
It's also important to remember, that it is always ok to say "no".
People Share Their Best 'You Either Die The Hero Or Live Long Enough To Become The Villain' Experiences
"You either die the hero or live long enough to become the villain."
Though not necessarily a universal truth, all of us have witnessed unfortunate moments in our lives where we've seen this saying become a reality.
Be it seeing our favorite public figures take a serious fall from grace, someone we know and admire eventually disappointing us in a devastating manner, or even seeing ourselves turn into someone we promised we'd never become.
One Redditor was curious to hear people's examples of this saying coming to light, either from a personal experience or seeing it happen to a well-known, public figure, leading them to ask:
"Who is your example of 'you either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villain'?"
"He originally stood up for civil rights when it was really unpopular."
"Was hospitalized and accidentally placed in the black ward."
"When the doctors found out, they tried to move him, but he refused."
"Then he became a cult leader and used his power and influence to end the lives of a thousand people."- Crvsby
Earning a position of power
"Working in restaurant kitchens."
"You either burn out young, or become the boss that everyone hates."
"There's exceptions, but that's the rule."- grandpas_old_crow
"Henry Heimlich, inventor of the Heimlich Maneuver."
"Made up a bunch of untested uses for it, treating people having asthma attacks, and drowning victims were the two I remember that he publicly talked up."
"Later, he funded an experiment that involved injecting people with Malaria to see if it would treat other conditions.
"The experiment was found to be unethical by American review boards, so he conducted them in Ethiopia." - User Deleted
"In WW1 he led the French to victory at Verdun, one of the worst battles in human history."
"In WW2, after France was beaten, Petain was the head of state of Vichy France."
"Guy went from the Lion of Verdun to the biggest Nazi collaborator in France."- arthuranymoredonuts
"Every organ until it gets cancer."- SuperBaconjam
"He had the whole country behind him here in Ireland at one point bar people who thought combat sport is grotesque."
"He was witty, original, backing himself up and having a Hollywood like rise to stardom."
"Now he's someone who the whole country is ashamed of, goes punching old men, clearly sleeps around on his wife while she's at home with the kids, just a walking caricature of himself."
"He didn't listen to his own advice."
"Get out."- StephenPigot2020
Turning into our parents
"My dad used to annoy me by calling my Pokemon cards 'Pokey-Mans'."
"Now my kids have them and I do the same thing and it annoys the sh*t out of them."
"Thanks for the (Pokeyman) gold!"- rumpel4skinOU
"Almost died during the revolutionary way, if I recall correctly, and if he had he would have been remembered a huge hero, and a martyr."
"Instead he lived and changed sides, and is remembered only for his being a traitor."- uniqueperson22
Be it someone we knew quite intimately, or someone we admired from a far, it is always heartbreaking to see someone evolve from someone we love, to someone we utterly hate.
Sometimes we do things that have to be done.
And some of those things live in life's gray area of right and wrong.
What comes as a surprise to some is when we don't care if we're wrong.
We may still technically be in the right.
But morally and ethically, there may be some issues.
But still, many people don't care.
Redditor BirdyPizzawanted to see who would fess up about some of the worst things we're responsible for but have no shame.
"What is the darkest thing you have ever done and don’t regret?"
I've stolen from department stores that overcharged. I was arrested. I didn't care. So there...
"Five years ago my dad suffered a catastrophic stroke. Left paralyzed and robbed of his speech and ability to communicate he was a shell of the once vibrant, charismatic man he once was. He was moved into skilled nursing where he lived for nearly two years, he was miserable."
"On my last visit I told him it was okay if he wanted to leave us, that we would miss him but he should go. A week later I received the call that he had passed. Instead of immediate grief I felt relief. Relief that he was finally free. The grief came later and I still miss him every single day."
"Got into a car accident and had to stay with my mom for a couple days to figure out what to do. Went back to my apartment (I had two roommates) and everything was missing from my room. Long story short one of my roommates had everything hidden in her room."
"I called and told her the things were missing from my room and she came up with a lie that a couple girls came to look at my room (I was moving out bc of the accident, long story) and that they must have taken my things. She had everything I owned. Including my grandmothers perfume bottles, stuffed to the back of her closet, under her bed, behind her dresser etc."
"So I packed all of my stuff up. Then took a giant black garbage bag and stuffed as much of her closet in it as I could. Took it to the middle of nowhere, dug a hole and burnt it. She called screaming at me that her stuff was missing. I told her the two girls must have come by and taken her stuff too."
"I hit my uncle left right and center when he was trying to choke my father to death. I was 16 years old at that time, a very skinny girl. I beat his face neck and every part of him that I could target with so much intensity that my knuckles turned blue the next day. I had an animalistic rage that day trying to help my father get away from his death grip. I hate my uncle even today."
"I got anger issues because of growing up around him. And I don't regret beating him that day at all. He was physically abusive to his wife as well. One fine day, his wife retaliated by beating him blue with a stick. And he stopped being physically violent towards her post that."
"A neighbor like 10 years ago was neglecting their dog badly in the heat. The dog escaped often and ended up at the shelter a lot. One day she jumped the fence and got her tie-out cable stuck on the fence. (She was not in danger of choking.) Neighbor put her on a 3-foot-long cable tied to a doorknob, no water, 90 degree day. I let some kind folks steal her, watched the whole thing and said nothing to stop them."
"When my father was dying and in pain I was the one who told the doctors he had been through enough and we couldn't see him suffer anymore. Doctor injected him with something, I assume a morphine mega dose and he passed peacefully moments after. Euthanasia may not be legal in UK but compassionate doctors know what's what. I don't regret it because my pa made me promise I would have his back when he got sick or old. I'm sad he got sick and never got to get old."
That is a lot of mess. But sometimes we have to do what we have to do.
"One of my ex best friends in high school was a real narcissistic lunatic. Had so many egotistical fantasies about what he deserved but I remained his friend because we met through my close friend (his girlfriend). As I started realizing what a terrible person he was I convinced him to go after his fantasy of a harem by asking to add a 3rd to their relationship, that led to a fight between his gf."
"I called her about it and asked how she felt about him adding someone to their relationship and about him sleeping with her. She said she knew nothing about that and started crying because he cheated on her. I basically helped orchestrate their breakup and have no regrets. She is happy with her first child now and he is in a toxic af relationship with 3 kids, 2 of which aren't his and his partner is 8 years older than him."
"Had to make the choice to take my dad off of life support after he got Covid this year. He was sedated for a couple of weeks and one of his lungs collapsed and I couldn't watch him fall apart anymore. My dad was a bulky dude. Constantly did a lot of outdoor work and to see him bone skinny and have no muscle left killed me and I knew even if he somehow got through it, he would have been so miserable and depressed in that state he was in. I don’t regret it. I think it was the right thing to do by him. I’ll never not miss him though. That was my buddy."
"Turned a close friend into the fish and game. He would poach mountain lions and bears. His whole family would literally shoot them and leave them. He would brag about it. I couldn’t stand it and felt that I needed to stop him. He’s in prison and so is his uncle. I know I ruined his life but he was literally killing so many mountain lions and bears."
"In middle school, there was this group of boys that would corner me in the hallway and try to scare me. I was the perfect target for these little b**tards. I was short, skinny, and had (and still have) and anxiety disorder. One day I just had enough, and asked a friend if I could have an extra pencil, sharpened it as much as I could, and when I saw one of them in the hallway, I stabbed the hell out of his leg. Sh**head got what he deserved."
Wow... we really are a dark and secretive people.