Creating a family of one's own (whether it be with a partner or by yourself) is a sacred and beautiful life decision. Unfortunately the road to success on this path can be bumpy. Sometimes mother nature doesn't play fair and hopeful parents have to find "special" ways to bring their new loved one home. Two of the ways to make a family is through the medical procedure of IVF and adoption. Both are tried and true methods, but for many, doing IVF and creating a "biological" bond often outweighs adoption, which can be a controversial decision.Redditor u/ellie1398 wanted to hear from people who are trying to fulfill their dreams of creating a family from flesh and blood by asking.... [Serious] Why would people rather spend a fortune on in vitro fertilization than adopt a child?
Trust me, you didn't miss out on much. Pregnancy is not usually fun. I threw up 3-5 daily for the first six months, even while on medication for morning sickness. And childbirth is pretty gross. Most women poop while in labor. I did. Not to mention all the other bodily fluids I'll probably have another bio kid, but I really do want to adopt after that. Or do foster care Blood doesn't make you a family, love and connection does. And adopting doesn't mean your kid is any less your kid.
On the same note, I get not being able to conceive must be really tough.
I have a cousin, infertile, who spent years trying to adopt and spent a huge amount of money going through the process multiple times, honestly sometimes adopting goes great and other times it turns out to be a soul-crushing effort in futility.
My father-in-law and mother-in-law adopted four children after they married, in part because he had had a vasectomy while married to his first wife. One of the children was taken back by the birth family after a single weekend. Two of the other three eventually involved going to court with extended members of the birth families, who found out about the adoptions years later and wanted to claim the children.
With IVF, you are certain you will have parental rights. It's not so certain with adoption, at least in America, because many courts will favor those with a genetic connection (and almost all will at least listen to them).
No Cheap Way.
For what it's worth adoption is often expensive too. And it can take a very long time - you don't get to just go down to Babies'R'Us and pick your favorite, you have to be more or less chosen by an expectant mother. And they can often fail to come fruition - mama gets cold feet, or something.
People act like there are just a ton of adoptable babies. There is not. Most kids that are readily available have major health, mental, or emotional problems, especially older kids.
Their own genetics to live on.
Depending on where you choose to adopt from it can cost as much as 50k. Adopting an infant is often a stressful process since the mother retains rights to terminate the process at any time up until the final moment. That means you could spend all of the money and emotional effort to go through the process only to have it derailed last minute.
Another issue is that often times older children come from extremely hostile and unhealthy environments. They have emotional issues and behaviors that make raising them much harder.
The last issue, and the most superficial, is that people want their own children. Their own genetics to live on.
More than you can handle....
As an AP there are a lot of people who are not ready to adopt and kids suffer for it. I think they should do more to ensure parents are ready, especially if they are adopting transracially or after infertility. So many kids end up with parents who can't handle what adoption brings with it.
And when it comes to foster care, the standards should be even higher. The only thing worse than being removed from your parents due to abuse or neglect is facing that same situation in a house full of strangers.
After the 1st...
We went through IVF and had our first child. A few times through the process we were asked "why not just adopt?". We both agreed we would try to have OUR child first, but that didn't mean adopting was off the table. Even if you go through IVF, it has a slim chance of working.
I can't speak personally, but I asked a friend of mine this exact question, as his wife is going the IVF route first. They both know people who have attempted to adopt, sometimes two or three times, and every time the expectant mother pulled out of the process. If one's friends all have a 0% success rate of adoptions, I imagine it can turn you real sour to the process.
Apparently 50% of all fertilizations, both natural and IVF, just fail. I talked about this with a researcher once. They just can't explain why there is a coin flip of a chance of the fertilized egg from being viable. The process just failed to start. With no clear explanation. Women often don't even notice that this has happened. The process just fails to start.
Made me realize that successful pregnancy, even if common, is extremely difficult and lucky.
In our state, adoption is more invasive than IVF. Instead of privacy between you and your doctor, you have to submit to all sorts of home studies, interviews, agency visits, and questions being asked by all sorts of people to all parts of your life. And in the end, the option for IVF was covered by medical insurance, whereas all adoption fees are yours to incur.
"A note on the premise"
First, I want to acknowledge that I'm extremely pro-adoption. My comments aren't meant to suggest I'm not, but rather an attempt to answer the question.
A note on the premise, adoption isn't exactly cheap. It's not like a $20 donation to the animal shelter. I don't think anybody views adoption vs IVF as a strictly financial decision, but there are too many factors to make a blanket statement about the financial particulars for every situation.
Also, depending on your state, adoption can be a pretty brutal process, frankly.
Some states require you to spend time in the foster care world (which can be heart-wrenching) and it's not exactly uncommon for birth parents to try and regain custody- an emotional and financial nightmare. Nobody's suggesting it isn't, but adoption is hard on both the parents and children in a way that having a baby of your own is not.
For what it's worth, and I'm not saying I agree with it, people who want children may occasionally view adoption as a method of last resort.
On the flowchart of how people might choose to have children, I'm betting the order of priorities for those with the means to consider all of the options in play goes as follows:
conceive naturally - conceive with assistance - adoption
Again- not meant to be an encapsulating comparison between IVF and adoption, but rather an observation of what folks given that choice might consider.
Mental illness definitely disqualifies you from a lot of adoptions, but possibly only the international ones. (And only certain countries.) So does your age, the amount of time you've been married, and whether or not either of you are divorced. Oh and a lot of them require that you be a member of a Christian church.
People seem to think adoption is like in old times TV shows where you just go to an orphanage and pick a baby. My sister in law adopted a baby and the birth mother changed her mind. It was heart wrenching. My parents were foster parents to a little boy and spent two years taking him to visits with his birth parents before they signed over their parental rights and my parents could adopt him.
It was a roller coaster two years because you LOVE this kid and at any moment the courts could decide his parents are no longer unfit parents and you have to give him back forever. That kind of emotional roller coaster is not something everyone can handle.
I've wanted to adopt kids basically since I was a kid myself, but I know it's not easy emotionally, financially, or mentally for a lot of cases.
I think a lot of people want to start off their families 'clean' so to speak, meaning no government interference (since IVF just requires medical interviews, checkups, etc) and potential issues with biological parents. Beyond that, there may be other health issues that can rise up from the time in utero or the first months/years (depending on what age the child is ofc) that will affect a child's development/personality/health and that you have no control over whatsoever.
Then even beyond that, there's the added step of figuring out how to explain to your child that you aren't genetically related and dealing with any identity questions they may have arise from that discussion.
I want to adopt, but I can definitely see why people are very hesitant to do so and turn to other means to build their families.
I initially wanted to adopt, then I looked into it more. I'm in the UK, and generally babies are not given up at birth, but children are removed from the home after going through hell. They deserve love and support, but they need someone who can handle the inevitable damage that has occurred. As much as I wanted to adopt, I had to admit, with my mental health issues, I cannot be strong enough to help a child through such trauma.
Isn't IVF also still using your egg and or sperm, so theres still the whole biological component some people still want their genes passed down.
I think it's the best answer to OP's question by a mile. But it's one of those things that people don't necessarily feel proud about, not really a feel good thing to say "I would prefer to raise my actual biological offspring." Even though most people probably feel that way to some degree. And on the other hand, as you say, if you feel committed to doing the obviously 'righteous' path you would be more inclined to advertise that.
I'm surprised biology isn't a bigger part of the conversation.
That biological link is the entire "nature" side of rearing a child. Adoption only allows you to pass on your knowledge, and has zero genetic influence on the next generation. You'd miss out on seeing their hereditary traits develop and furthering your bloodline.
This thread smacks of charitable pretentiousness that ready parents should donate their attention to children already in need instead of doing something as selfish as, god forbid, having a kid of their own.
I've always considered adoption to be the first choice, even before having your own, my reasoning isn't because I was in foster care, because I've never been in it, my reasoning is, there's too many people in the world and bringing more into an already doomed world is selfish, you get to love that kid for a few years and that kid has to suffer through life for the rest of its, and also, my family is damn awful, I don't want my bloodline to continue, not to mention the hereditary heart disease, sciatica, blindness, poor posture because of our height, constant aching bones and the few other things were prone too.
There are actually very strict rules about adoption (although i only know about England) and one of the factors is age, so if you've spent years trying for a baby and doing IVF then often you simply can't adopt because you won't meet the requirements. this is what happened to my brother and his wife, they were so upset by it, their last option and it wasn't even available for them.
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At one point in our lives, we have struggled to make ends meet and ate whatever we could to survive.
Curious to hear about the palates from strangers online, Redditor knightfall0 asked:
"What is a poverty food you'll always eat no matter how you're doing in life?"
These typical cultural cuisine are popular favorites.
"Cheap can of corn, cheap can of black beans, 3 cups of cheap rice."
"Tortillas for flair."
"Boom! Poverty tacos."
Magic Of Ramen
"Same. I've eaten expensive restaurant meals that still don't compare to a 25 cent ramen package."
"25 cent ramen package with a boiled egg marinated in soy sauce packets and sugar and some spinach if you have any for some veggie chef kiss cheapest dinner but makes it feel fancy."
What's In The Bowl
"Rice bowls are like half the meals I eat anymore."
Presto, Dinner Is Served!
"Random stuff in my fridge fried rice. Take the veggies that are about to go off, throw in some cheap white rice and an egg with some soy sauce and garlic- boom, dinner."
Bread-based meals seem to be an easy go-to choice.
The Sweet Spot
"The butter, cinnamon and sugar on toast combo. Always a classic."
For The Posh Palate
"Beans on toast and if I'm feeling posh maybe i will put an egg on top."
An American Classic
"PB and J. Hasn't failed me yet."
Good 'Ole Cornbread
"Cornbread and buttermilk. Seem to recall that my maternal great grandmother's house in the the early 1960s had a manual pump in the kitchen, an outhouse and oil lamps, no electricity! There was a big stump for splitting wood for the heat and killing chickens. Relatives had tractors but at least one still worked with draft horses...big horses. NE TN. And my Mother would eat salt sandwiches."
"I do like cornbread, various peas and beans and greens...a lot!"
Who said traditional side dishes can't be the main attraction? These folks, that's who.
"Mac and cheese with hotdogs or sloppy joes were top tier. I remember having to be careful to not take too much meat/noodles since we only had one can/box to share."
"If I had a million dollars, we wouldn't have to eat Kraft Dinner (but we would eat Kraft Dinner)"
This Spud's For You
"Potatoes. Cheap, tasty and filling."
"Boil 'em, mash 'em, stick 'em in a stew."
Instant ramen has come a long way. I go to one of several local Japanese markets here in Manhattan and there are literally aisles of a variety of ramen and yakisoba, my personal favorite, stocked on shelves to choose from.
Yakisoba is basically "fried" noodles. It is "instant" because you basically soften the noodles with boiling water and drain it after three minutes.
The sauce packets that come with some of these are an absolute delight, and I usually add scallions or even a hard-boiled egg.
It is cheap, simple to prepare, and absolutely delicious.
As adults, especially those who work with or have kids of their own, we have a responsibility to mold the young minds that will go on to be the adults of tomorrow. They are our future, and we owe it to them to raise adults that will be respectful and kind community members.
There are plenty of things we were taught as kids that we thought were harmless at the time. But years later those same things have become an issue.
We went to ask Reddit to learn about those issues that we should change for the next generation.
Redditor Ok-Department5749 asked:
"What should we stop teaching young children?"
Let's see how many of these things you heard when you were growing up.
Boys will be boys.
"That if someone is picking on them it means they like them. Gonna set them up for a lot of problems later in life."
"I have a personal beef with this one. The boy who harassed me because he 'just liked me' is now in prison for assault."
"Yep. I had my hair pulled and punched by a boy in third grade. Was told by both teacher and principal that it wasn't a big deal. Boys do that all the time and bedsides he probably just liked me."
"I hate that 'boys will be boys' crap."
"Boys will be boys is for when you and the boys decide to use plywood as a bike ramp, not when someone sexually assaults someone else."
You can't be everyone's friend, and that's okay.
"That everyone is your friend. It's not true. I had to tell my 9 year old niece that sometimes people aren't going to like her and it's just how it is. This broke her heart because there's a boy in her class who doesn't like her and she's been trying to win him over. She's so sweet and I hated having to tell her that."
"I am an ECE who works with school-age kids. My line is 'we aren't all friends here, and that is ok, but we have to treat everybody with respect/kindly'. I see lots of ECE's use the 'friend' terminology ex 'we don't hit our friends' 'your friends are trying to sleep'. I avoid the terminology like the plague."
"I've seen it backfire. I had a 7-year old tell me that it was ok that she hurt another child because the other child wasn't her friend (This was this particular child's first year with us)."
"This is great because it helps kids learn to treat others with respect while also helping them manage their own expectations about immediately being friends with/like by everyone (which obviously isn't the case). It's a gentle introduction to reality that will save them a lot of trouble down the line. I mean, I really wish I had been taught to build confidence in myself rather than my confidence depending on whether or not other people liked/approved of me."
"The 2nd part to that lesson is learning that a relationship is only worth your time if both people like each other."
"More importantly, if both people respect each other."
Older doesn't always mean wiser.
"That just because someone's older doesn't mean they are right."
"Maybe we should teach the older generation that just because someone is younger doesn't mean they don't know what they're talking about. That is the problem I've seen."
"My husband's grandma gets mad when she's wrong. She always yells 'Respect your elders!'"
"Umm being wrong is just that. You find a correction and move on. Also, respect isn't just given. If you can't treat others the right way, no matter how many times you scream that stupid phrase at me, I won't respect you."
Consent is important in all contexts.
"That not wanting to hug someone is rude."
"I have four nieces and see this happen to them a lot. The youngest one doesn't always remember me. Her older sisters give me hugs with delight and I always tell the youngest to hug me when she's okay with it. I hate hugging people when I don't want to so I'm not gonna subjugate her to something no one can stand. It's so freaking weird."
"Glad someone said this. Children need to be able to say no to unwanted physical contact."
Stop forcing your kids to eat.
"To finish the food on your plate if you're not still hungry. Note: don't waste food. Save leftovers if you can."
"Was going to say the same thing. Kids are allowed to not like foods the same as adults. We have a 2 bite rule. I don't like avocado, so I don't eat it. My stepdaughter doesn't like green beans so I just don't put them on her plate. I never understood this or the clean plate thing. That can lead to eating disorders later on."
"Also doesn't help with sensory issues."
"My partner just can't handle the texture of 99% of vegetables. So I work around it with veggie noodles and blending vegetables. Since I love to cook, I love the challenge of making something healthy but working around the texture thing (I also have an aversion to some vegetables. Like cauliflower. I can't.)"
"To that end, cooking things in different ways is paramount. Don't just boil some green beans and call it a day. I used to hate collard greens until my mom made 'boozy' greens (I forgot what she put in them for liquor). Other people just boiled them and slapped them on a plate, but what she did was just more harmonious. Complex. Satisfying."
"Once I heard my aunt tell my nieces that they needed to eat everything on their plates, even if they didn't like it, because "someday you're going to start dating and you don't want boys to think you are a picky eater." I had a conversation with my own daughter later about how wrong that statement was."
"My brain audibly broke when I read that. Thank you for telling your daughter how wrong your aunt was."
"Those 'zero tolerance policies' where you get detention because someone punched you in the back of the head make any f*cking sense."
"I've never even heard a valid argument for this. It's always, 'You MUST have done something to incite this.' Like no, some people are just a**holes and you shouldn't be punished for their actions."
"The sole point of this is, and has always been, for school administrators to escape responsibility."
"We had a student break the zero tolerance policy. He got jumped in the hallway, threw his hands out to his sides away from the attacker, and screamed that he wasn't fighting back and that he needed help. Once he went to the floor, he balled up and kept yelling. He was a bigger kid than his attacker and could have handled it, but chose to take the hits."
"When he got called to the office and the zero tolerance policy was brought up, he pointed out that he never fought back, screamed that he wouldn't to de-escalate the situation, and that he needed help like students are taught to do when they are being bullied. Having done everything right, it wasn't a fight, it was an assault and if they punished him for being assaulted under their care, his parents would be blasting this everywhere they could."
"He never got punished and the other kid was expelled."
It's out responsibility to care about the young people in our lives and raise them to be respectful members of the community. It starts with us.
Now that we know better, we must do better.
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People often daydream about the easy life, where they can live in the lap of luxury.
"What would be your first purchase if you came into serious 'f'k you' money?"
People seem to want to be rich enough to live in seclusion.
This Land Is My Land
"Four sections of good pastureland. For those who don't know, that's 2,560 acres, 4 square miles. I'd build in the dead center and never have a neighbor less than a mile from me."
Float In My Moat
"i'd put in a lazy river that ran around the perimeter of my property."
My Own Private Island
"A big old f'k off island a float plane and a self sustained off grid community. Open my fishing camp."
Niche indulgences is the name of the game.
Get You A Fast Car
"SO has always dreamt of driving a Porsche. A very specific model, color, etc. He has it as his screen saver. I would get him that car."
"Paying off the land my husband died protecting so that we can build something to honor him by. Specifically turning it into a retreat for combat vets and active duty members."
"Hire a team of architects to design a big house and put in a bunch of secret passageways and rooms and not tell me how to find them so I can have fun discovering them over time."
"I'd buy a cul-de-sac of posh houses, gate if off and have my friends live there. They all work from home so doesn't matter where."
"Then one day, there will be deliveries to all the houses. Paintball guns. Masks. The full month."
"And as the clock strikes noon that day, I will have a loud battle cry (haven't decided the sound yet) play on a huge speaker."
"I don't need to tell them this is a battle to the death. They will already know..."
These Redditors were concerned about self-preservation without the stress of incurring massive debt.
Take Care Of My Health
"Go to the dentist, optometrist, and doctor without worrying that whatever needs to be done won't cause financial ruin."
"A good lawyer to get me set up for life."
Settle Debts And Drive Off Into The Sunset
"First purchase? Freedom: pay off student loans, mortgage, and any other debt. Can't think of a bigger f'k you :) then a couple Teslas lol"
If I ever came into a ridiculous amount of money, I would first build a retreat somewhere in Venice, Italy, and frequently host a masquerade ball where everyone is required to show up in Venetian Carnivale attire—just short of becoming an Eyes Wide Shut moment.
Then, I would build a luxury home in Tokyo, complete with a theater academy where new productions would constantly be workshopped at night while aspiring young performers hone their skills throughout the day in the many classes taught by my colleagues.
And my home base? Why, it would be near the beaches of Malibu in SoCal, of course.
I would bounce between my three properties in my own private jet.
It's not a big ask, is it?
Most inventions were made with the idea to bring progress to humanity, not to harm it. However, that is not always how things turn out. A prime -and sad- example of this can be found in the life of Alfred Nobel. Most people know his name as the creator of the Nobel Peace prize without a second thought as to what drove him to make such an award.
The tragic truth is that Alfred Nobel invented dynamite with the intent to help with industrial uses. After seeing the horrendous usage of his invention to kill so many people so easily he lived the rest of his life under the weight of an all-consuming regret. That led him to use his fortune to create an award for those who have done incredible things for humanity and peace.
Redditor IndependentHungry840 wanted to know other inventions that met a harmful ending and asked:
“What invention has done more harm than good?"
Constant media panic…
“24 hour news media. It is absolutely one of the most toxic, miasmic, foul things we could have ever come up with." wiredsignal
“What makes it worse is the "news" isn't just news, it's ONLY bad news. There's never an hour of only uplifting, happy stories that happened today. It's just a constant barrage of fear-mongering and misery." AdamNRG
Lead poisoning causes lower IQ and behavior disruption…
“There used to be lead in gasoline; they thought it would improve engine performance. Not only did it ruin people's lungs, many believe that it caused an increase in violent crime, because things like muggings almost disappeared after lead was taken out of gas.” doowgad1
“I'm pretty sure it was proven that after the invention of leaded gasoline, the average IQ dropped. And leaded gas was around for a pretty long time.” Marksman18
“Violent crime massively spiked in the US from about 1970-2000, right when atmospheric lead concentration spiked as well.” Agent_Orange7
Smoking is just bad all the way around…
“Cigarettes. Supposed to relieve stress and help the user feel in control due the nicotine inside which is of course highly addictive. Not to mention the myriad of other harmful things inside of them (Methanol/Rocket Fuel, Arsenic, Stearic Acid/Candle Wax, etc.)" Toa-Magnus
“The worst part is, cigarettes replaced tobacco pipes, which have substantially lower health risks, due to the fact that you don't inhale from a pipe at all, just "sip" the smoke and blow."
“Cigarettes' ease of use and popularity has also lead to tons of small tobacco growers just going straight out of business because the high temps cigs burn at and the filtered tip make the actual quality of the tobacco "less important" insofar as our friend Big Tobacco is concerned. Not to mention that same accessibility making childhood smoking much easier to pick up and hide."
“If you're a long-time smoker and have trouble quitting, you could at least consider transitioning to pipes, the learning curve isn't steeper than a few nights in google, and the smoke smells way better for bystanders than everyone's favorite acrid cancer stick. I mean, it ain't good for you, but it's leagues better than cigarettes." Strudel_Meister
This right here!
“Private prisons, the peak of modern slavery, prisons are meant to be reforming facilities/keeping criminals in check, not a business but if your country thought slavery was okay back then, why it wouldn't work now.” PsychologicalTart602
Education time: Part of the dehumanizing experiences to which prisoners are subjected work to only further isolate them from society making it more difficult to reintegrate upon release. The psychological damage and lack of prosocial connectivity coupled with social stigma and scare resources helps ensure a continuation of the crime cycle with extraordinarily high recidivism rates.
This means the United States prisons stay full so they can keep lining the pockets of the private ownership essentially incentivizing the people who run these correctional facilities to keep any true rehabilitative programming to a bare minimum.
Asbestos, not the fire proof miracle we thought…
“Asbestos insulation." Ancient-Pause-99
“I live where the asbestos mine just shut down ten years ago. You can't get your house tested for asbestos because it's literally in everything, so even brand new houses would test positive from the surroundings. All the other rocks from the mine were used all over in sidewalks, roads, Street lamps, etc.” RoselleLS
Eli Whitney’s inventions…
“Whitney's cotton gin in the 1790's. Made slavery profitable. When I took a class on antebellum economics a argument that had support was that before the 1790s slavery was in decline.” CSMURPHRUN
“Then Eli went on to develop mass production and gave it to the North allowing them to mass produce rifles with interchangeable parts. This led to the North's victory. Eli Whitney had arguably the largest impact on American history of any single person. Essentially providing the tools to start the civil war then end it.” Louis_A_Devil
Social Media Platforms…social media followers GIF by The Orchard FilmsGiphy
“Social media ironically has made it harder to actually socialize with people and imo is responsible for a huge portion of social anxiety around the world." BradRogriguez
|“The issues caused by social media are much deeper than just lack of in-person connection and social anxiety. Mental health overall in teens and young adults is on a decline, and misinformation is spreading rampantly, people are even more divided than ever ideologically” kiwidog8|
“the original social media."
“The guy who invented the megaphone said he felt responsible for Hitler's rise. Before that, the most people you could really talk to at once was like 100. After that, one speech can reach millions.” skeetsauce
“Oh sh*t. The megaphone was the original social media.” Shermione
The lie detector test…
“Polygraph test. Its a stress test, in no way was it ever supposed to a ‘lie detector’. The inventor was beyond horrified and destroyed at the ‘monstrous misuse of his technology by law enforcement’.” MurrayMan92
“I think the way Keurig has evolved is hilarious. They started with the hugely wasteful cups that lots of people used. Eventually people realized how wasteful they were and pressured Keurig to make reusable cups. Now they're just a normal coffee machine.”
“They came from nowhere, invented a new technology, and eventually just ended up using the same old technology as their competitors and somehow ended up coming out on top” Lemon_Tile
While good intentions proceeded these inventions there certainly were grave consequences. It shows the bad sides of humanity in that if it can be weaponized it will be.
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