Creating a family of one's own (whether it be with a partner or by yourself) is a sacred and beautiful life decision. Unfortunately the road to success on this path can be bumpy. Sometimes mother nature doesn't play fair and hopeful parents have to find "special" ways to bring their new loved one home. Two of the ways to make a family is through the medical procedure of IVF and adoption. Both are tried and true methods, but for many, doing IVF and creating a "biological" bond often outweighs adoption, which can be a controversial decision.Redditor u/ellie1398 wanted to hear from people who are trying to fulfill their dreams of creating a family from flesh and blood by asking.... [Serious] Why would people rather spend a fortune on in vitro fertilization than adopt a child?
Trust me, you didn't miss out on much. Pregnancy is not usually fun. I threw up 3-5 daily for the first six months, even while on medication for morning sickness. And childbirth is pretty gross. Most women poop while in labor. I did. Not to mention all the other bodily fluids I'll probably have another bio kid, but I really do want to adopt after that. Or do foster care Blood doesn't make you a family, love and connection does. And adopting doesn't mean your kid is any less your kid.
On the same note, I get not being able to conceive must be really tough.
I have a cousin, infertile, who spent years trying to adopt and spent a huge amount of money going through the process multiple times, honestly sometimes adopting goes great and other times it turns out to be a soul-crushing effort in futility.
My father-in-law and mother-in-law adopted four children after they married, in part because he had had a vasectomy while married to his first wife. One of the children was taken back by the birth family after a single weekend. Two of the other three eventually involved going to court with extended members of the birth families, who found out about the adoptions years later and wanted to claim the children.
With IVF, you are certain you will have parental rights. It's not so certain with adoption, at least in America, because many courts will favor those with a genetic connection (and almost all will at least listen to them).
No Cheap Way.
For what it's worth adoption is often expensive too. And it can take a very long time - you don't get to just go down to Babies'R'Us and pick your favorite, you have to be more or less chosen by an expectant mother. And they can often fail to come fruition - mama gets cold feet, or something.
People act like there are just a ton of adoptable babies. There is not. Most kids that are readily available have major health, mental, or emotional problems, especially older kids.
Their own genetics to live on.
Depending on where you choose to adopt from it can cost as much as 50k. Adopting an infant is often a stressful process since the mother retains rights to terminate the process at any time up until the final moment. That means you could spend all of the money and emotional effort to go through the process only to have it derailed last minute.
Another issue is that often times older children come from extremely hostile and unhealthy environments. They have emotional issues and behaviors that make raising them much harder.
The last issue, and the most superficial, is that people want their own children. Their own genetics to live on.
More than you can handle....
As an AP there are a lot of people who are not ready to adopt and kids suffer for it. I think they should do more to ensure parents are ready, especially if they are adopting transracially or after infertility. So many kids end up with parents who can't handle what adoption brings with it.
And when it comes to foster care, the standards should be even higher. The only thing worse than being removed from your parents due to abuse or neglect is facing that same situation in a house full of strangers.
After the 1st...
We went through IVF and had our first child. A few times through the process we were asked "why not just adopt?". We both agreed we would try to have OUR child first, but that didn't mean adopting was off the table. Even if you go through IVF, it has a slim chance of working.
I can't speak personally, but I asked a friend of mine this exact question, as his wife is going the IVF route first. They both know people who have attempted to adopt, sometimes two or three times, and every time the expectant mother pulled out of the process. If one's friends all have a 0% success rate of adoptions, I imagine it can turn you real sour to the process.
Apparently 50% of all fertilizations, both natural and IVF, just fail. I talked about this with a researcher once. They just can't explain why there is a coin flip of a chance of the fertilized egg from being viable. The process just failed to start. With no clear explanation. Women often don't even notice that this has happened. The process just fails to start.
Made me realize that successful pregnancy, even if common, is extremely difficult and lucky.
In our state, adoption is more invasive than IVF. Instead of privacy between you and your doctor, you have to submit to all sorts of home studies, interviews, agency visits, and questions being asked by all sorts of people to all parts of your life. And in the end, the option for IVF was covered by medical insurance, whereas all adoption fees are yours to incur.
"A note on the premise"
First, I want to acknowledge that I'm extremely pro-adoption. My comments aren't meant to suggest I'm not, but rather an attempt to answer the question.
A note on the premise, adoption isn't exactly cheap. It's not like a $20 donation to the animal shelter. I don't think anybody views adoption vs IVF as a strictly financial decision, but there are too many factors to make a blanket statement about the financial particulars for every situation.
Also, depending on your state, adoption can be a pretty brutal process, frankly.
Some states require you to spend time in the foster care world (which can be heart-wrenching) and it's not exactly uncommon for birth parents to try and regain custody- an emotional and financial nightmare. Nobody's suggesting it isn't, but adoption is hard on both the parents and children in a way that having a baby of your own is not.
For what it's worth, and I'm not saying I agree with it, people who want children may occasionally view adoption as a method of last resort.
On the flowchart of how people might choose to have children, I'm betting the order of priorities for those with the means to consider all of the options in play goes as follows:
conceive naturally - conceive with assistance - adoption
Again- not meant to be an encapsulating comparison between IVF and adoption, but rather an observation of what folks given that choice might consider.
Mental illness definitely disqualifies you from a lot of adoptions, but possibly only the international ones. (And only certain countries.) So does your age, the amount of time you've been married, and whether or not either of you are divorced. Oh and a lot of them require that you be a member of a Christian church.
People seem to think adoption is like in old times TV shows where you just go to an orphanage and pick a baby. My sister in law adopted a baby and the birth mother changed her mind. It was heart wrenching. My parents were foster parents to a little boy and spent two years taking him to visits with his birth parents before they signed over their parental rights and my parents could adopt him.
It was a roller coaster two years because you LOVE this kid and at any moment the courts could decide his parents are no longer unfit parents and you have to give him back forever. That kind of emotional roller coaster is not something everyone can handle.
I've wanted to adopt kids basically since I was a kid myself, but I know it's not easy emotionally, financially, or mentally for a lot of cases.
I think a lot of people want to start off their families 'clean' so to speak, meaning no government interference (since IVF just requires medical interviews, checkups, etc) and potential issues with biological parents. Beyond that, there may be other health issues that can rise up from the time in utero or the first months/years (depending on what age the child is ofc) that will affect a child's development/personality/health and that you have no control over whatsoever.
Then even beyond that, there's the added step of figuring out how to explain to your child that you aren't genetically related and dealing with any identity questions they may have arise from that discussion.
I want to adopt, but I can definitely see why people are very hesitant to do so and turn to other means to build their families.
I initially wanted to adopt, then I looked into it more. I'm in the UK, and generally babies are not given up at birth, but children are removed from the home after going through hell. They deserve love and support, but they need someone who can handle the inevitable damage that has occurred. As much as I wanted to adopt, I had to admit, with my mental health issues, I cannot be strong enough to help a child through such trauma.
Isn't IVF also still using your egg and or sperm, so theres still the whole biological component some people still want their genes passed down.
I think it's the best answer to OP's question by a mile. But it's one of those things that people don't necessarily feel proud about, not really a feel good thing to say "I would prefer to raise my actual biological offspring." Even though most people probably feel that way to some degree. And on the other hand, as you say, if you feel committed to doing the obviously 'righteous' path you would be more inclined to advertise that.
I'm surprised biology isn't a bigger part of the conversation.
That biological link is the entire "nature" side of rearing a child. Adoption only allows you to pass on your knowledge, and has zero genetic influence on the next generation. You'd miss out on seeing their hereditary traits develop and furthering your bloodline.
This thread smacks of charitable pretentiousness that ready parents should donate their attention to children already in need instead of doing something as selfish as, god forbid, having a kid of their own.
I've always considered adoption to be the first choice, even before having your own, my reasoning isn't because I was in foster care, because I've never been in it, my reasoning is, there's too many people in the world and bringing more into an already doomed world is selfish, you get to love that kid for a few years and that kid has to suffer through life for the rest of its, and also, my family is damn awful, I don't want my bloodline to continue, not to mention the hereditary heart disease, sciatica, blindness, poor posture because of our height, constant aching bones and the few other things were prone too.
There are actually very strict rules about adoption (although i only know about England) and one of the factors is age, so if you've spent years trying for a baby and doing IVF then often you simply can't adopt because you won't meet the requirements. this is what happened to my brother and his wife, they were so upset by it, their last option and it wasn't even available for them.
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It's easy to get caught up in the past.
...so long as we knew what time of day it was going to be on.
What's something nostalgic for your age group?
Video games today are horrible!
Give us a 2-dimensional side-scroller of an Italian plumber fighting a dragon monster and nothing else good for many more years after that. Who needs all these fantastic releases, year in and year out, every year?
How Do We Enable "Big Head Mode?"
"Up, up, down, down, left, right, left, right, b, a, select, start"
"My toddler son has a toy game controller that plays a little jingle if you put this code in. I loved that they put that little Easter egg into a kids toy and it makes my husband smile every time he does it."
When Was This Old? *cries in tired old man
"Anytime recently I've tried to get back into Minecraft it breaks my heart because the game just feels so different now. I played it from 2010 up until 2018 or 19 almost religiously, but the past couple years have really changed the game. I'm sure it's just as fun to play now, but it doesn't have that same nostalgia factor anymore like it used to."
Tests Of Parenthood
"Neopets in 2005"
"My girlfriend at the time made me take care of one as a test for being a father. Literally."
Some things you long for aren't actually possible to do anymore, leading to the reasoning this is why the nostalgia is at an all-time high. What's worse than missing something that no longer exists?
The Smell, The Sounds, The Sights, The Ambience
"Going to Blockbuster with my friends on a Friday"
"Renting cheesy horror movies and making fun of them with the group!"
You Can Miss That?
"Dial up modem noises"
"Kiiiiiiiiiiii…kiiuuuu…kiiiuuuu.. it was something like that right? I even forgot."
"And then I used to open yahoo login page and do some other work for few minutes and come back while it loads, and then enter id password, hit login and then get a coffee until it loads."
Illegal, But, Yeah
"I remember the really early days of mp3 sharing, before P2P came along. There were hundreds of FTP servers that you could connect to with huge libraries of mp3s. No domain name, just a raw IP address that you found somewhere on usenet."
"But they couldn't just give it away, because then everyone would take and nobody would give. So they had quota systems: you'd upload an mp3, and for every byte you uploaded, you'd get to download 2, or 3, or maybe even 5. And this was over dialup, so uploading or downloading a single file could take 30 minutes."
"But it was FTP. Very simple and dumb. There was no memory of your "credits" between sessions, so if you uploaded a bunch of stuff and then lost your connection, you were SOL."
"It amazes me to think how much time I spent getting a few songs that today I can play any time I want on Spotify."
For some people, this next section will sound silly.
For others, this was our childhood, which sadly (when you really think about it) revolved around a television schedule we had no input on, meaning we had to plan everything out around when the next episode of Power Rangers aired.
Cartoons After School Are The Best
"Anime on Toonami. Cartoon Cartoon Fridays"
"Toonami had really great western cartoons as well. I loved watching Samurai Jack, Ben 10, Teen Titans, and Clone Wars on Toonami growing up."
"Old Cartoon Network, spiky gelled hair"
"Old Cartoon Network" is an interesting answer because people are gonna have different ideas about what "Old Cartoon Network" is. I think of Ed, Edd n Eddy and Codename: Kids Next Door. Another commenter mentioned Gumball which is still well after my time."
When Life Revolved Around Someone Else's Schedule
"Born in the 70s, grew up in the 80s...I remember huddling around the TV as a family to watch certain things."
"For some reason, they would show The Wizard of Oz every year on network tv..and it was a big deal. My mom would make popcorn...in a pot on the stove (It was the 80's) and we'd sit on a blanket on the floor and watch."
Or Friday Nights....Dukes of Hazzard (when it was new). Mom would get takeout from Burger Chef...and we'd sit on the floor eating hamburgers watching 'dem Duke Boys at it again."
"Or in the summer....they'd show Creature from the Black Lagoon 3D on tv. 7-11 would give out free 3-D glasses."
"For the younger Redditors....this was well before any kind of streaming/on demand service...and back when cable TV and VCRs were still a luxury that a lot of people didn't have. So, you really only got to watch what was on the few channels that your antenna allowed."
"Another one is coming home from school to watch old shows like Gilligan's Island, The Munsters, The Addams Family, Batman, F-Troop."
"Or staying up late and at midnight....the TV would play the National Anthem....then show a control screen and just "BEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEP" like this: https://youtu.be/Cnchea6LHN0"
The good ol' days.
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When determining how to spend our life in a way that feels worthy, many place a heavy emphasis on experiences. We want to die with scars and stories.
And sticking our necks out inevitably leads to a whole lot of struggle. But that doesn't mean we wouldn't do the same thing the very next day if we could go back.
Some things, though we'll never do them again, were too important an experience to pass up.
Redditor JackIrishJack asked:
"What should you do once, but not twice?"
Many people talked about the life experiences, big and small, that influenced their outlook. They recommend people go through some discomfort to gain important awareness.
A Capacity for Empathy
"Working in the food industry I feel like everybody should do it once so they can have a respect for food workers but it's also a hell I never want to go through again"
Paying for a Daydream
"Buy a lottery ticket"
"You're not going to win, but buying a lottery ticket gives you the chance to dream and pretend. Having a second lottery ticket isn't going to make your dreams more vivid."
Plenty of Implications
"Visit Auschwitz. I firmly believe everyone should go visit it so as to not forget what humans are capable of doing to each other. But no need to visit twice. Once was enough for me."
Others brought up things which, if done twice, would be a sure sign that something is very very wrong.
Supposed To Be Permanent
"Learning how to walk. The first time - good on you. Having to
relearn a second time means something went terribly wrong."
Only Two Sets
"Lose all of your teeth" -- Outrageous_Cream_112
"Haha I had to think about this for a second" -- ApplesauceDoctr
Don't Wanna Find Yourself There Too Often
"Get beaten half to death breaks the concepts of your limits. Second time breaks the spirit. Third time is overkill."
Others apparently viewed the question as an opportunity for a little cleverness.
If You're Good
"Cut...you measure twice before." -- wxguy215
"For me its more like 'measure twice, make sure it's just a teeny bit too long then go back and shave it off little by little until it wedges in perfectly' " -- pistpuncher3000
As the Saying Goes
"Fool me" -- Thia_suzieUzi
"FOOL ME THREE TIMES FU** THE PEACE SIGN LOAD THE CHOPPA LET IT RAIN ON YOU" -- nixusthegod
Only a Couple to Work With
"Donate a kidney" -- RealisticDelusions77
"Donate one kidney, you're a hero. Donate two kidneys, you're a corpse. Donate three kidneys, you're a felon." -- Drach88
"Be born. Going through the birthing process again would probably kill my mother." -- cylonrobot
Here's hoping we can all find the healthy balance between living a full, experienced life and punishing ourselves a little too much.
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Whenever I visit clothing stores, I make it a point to fold the clothes I unfurl. That is apparently my downfall as a customer.
Because of this, fellow customers often peg me as an employee and always ask me questions like where the bathroom is, or if the store has certain sizes left in stock.
Umm, no, I don't work here. I'm just a responsible customer. As you were.
Many of us make assumptions about other people just by looking at them. Who knew we were so presumptuous?
Curious to hear the experiences of strangers online, Redditor lilmizzvalz asked:
"What do people assume about you, based on your appearance?"
People often misinterpret moods based on how someone looks. That's unfair, wouldn't you say?
"That I'm caring and supportive. I have a resting nice face."
"That I am always mad. Nope just dissociating and staring off into space."
Not Meaning To Be Mean
"That I'm mean. I have a resting mean face for a dude I guess. Also lately it's worse because I'm bigger now. I don't really notice how my face appears but apparently, I seem angry when I'm looking at stuff."
"'You should smile' and 'are you ok?' comments followed me from busboy, waiter, bartender my whole career."
When it comes to measuring intelligence of others, some people are just way off.
Hard To Live Up To Expectations
"That I'm clever. People keep saying it to me, but I'm dumb and that sh*t is hard to live up to."
"I have glasses."
Eyes Full Of Wisdom
"I apparently have something similar going on mixed with looking like I know sh*t, because people come up to me in public and ask about directions, bus schedules and stuff all the time. Like, they'll deliberately avoid other people to ask me. Including when I'm abroad and should look a bit out of place."
"They assume I have an intellectual disability. (And also that I'm deaf, since I'm not able to speak.)"
"No, I am a person with two university degrees who happen to need a wheelchair because of a nasty neurological illness."
People don't always look their age. Some don't even act their age. But these Redditors have gotten their fair share of wrong guesses for their ages.
"That I'm 15."
"I'm 38 and a doctor. 'Did you just finish school?' EVERY DAY."
"This thread was depressing to read as I am 38 but often get mistaken for 50. I hate y'all and your youthful beauty."
Some people are typed out as certain types of people with just one look.
Watch Your Tone
"That I have a southern accent. Not one stranger has ever suspected that I have a 'New Jersey' accent (Born and raised in New Jersey before moving south)"
Not A Biker
"That I ride a Harley and/or work on them. I'm bald with a long goatee and tons of tattoos, but I'm in IT for a living and don't ride motorcycles at all."
Like others have expressed in the thread, I've also been accused of having "resting b*tch face."
You know, that neutral expression where you're not smiling the one time you're not in a situation where you have to be "on" for other people?
Yeah, that one.
If someone's resting face comes across as unfriendly, well, perhaps it's best not to upset them by asking them what's wrong all the time. Just sayin'.
Ideally, a teacher should take the job because of a genuine interest in helping students, furthering their education as well as their self-development. Of course, it's not as simple as that (administrative issues aside). Unfortunately, there are some teachers out there who aren't cut out for the job––and they even have a mean streak when it comes to their students. The effects this can have on the learning process are dire.
Teachers don't get paid well, and they're well aware. Many stick with the job because they have a passion for teaching; many others stick with the job because of the position of inscrutable authority it offers them over helpless students.
People shared their experiences after Redditor Ara-Rat asked the online community,
"What did your teacher do that made you call them 'the worst teacher ever'?"
"Questioned 5th-grade teacher's manner of pluralizing a word on the board. Got sent to the library to look it up in a dictionary and report my findings to the class.
Decades later and I'm still mad at that woman for trying to publicly humiliate a ten-year-old student."
That's awful. What is with adults who try to deliberately an example out of children?
"My old band teacher..."
"My old band teacher threw a projector at his students. He left the district later that year."
That was... probably for the best, when you think about it. (I had a teacher who threw a girl's pencil case out the window when she wouldn't stop talking; no, he was not fired.)
"My 3rd-grade teacher..."
"My 3rd-grade teacher got frustrated with a kid's stutter and started pounding the kid's desk with a closed fist while mocking his stutter."
Hopefully this teacher was disciplined and/or fired. That's the sort of behavior that thankfully would not fly today––it would go viral so fast.
"The worst were the teachers..."
"The worst were the teachers who would take books away from me and hold me up for ridicule because they disagreed or didn't approve of the genre or subject material. I was always into science fiction and horror genre's and many of them didn't consider it true literature worthy of reading. I remember my father getting into it with one of the teachers who disapproved of Robert Heinlein's Stranger in a Strange Land, to which he pointed out it was on the required reading list of a lot of major universities. Dad was awesome like that, and chewed the teacher and principal out for having the temerity to try to stop any student who wanted to read, regardless of what the genre was."
Teachers who mock students for reading are the worst. Reading is one of the best things any student can do––there are so many benefits! Hopefully you have not lost your love of reading.
"When I'd instinctively try..."
"She tied me to my chair. I was hyperactive, and also 5. She would also hold my hand during formation in the mornings and squeeze so hard my tiny knuckles would crack. When I'd instinctively try to pull my hand away, she'd hold onto it and smile at me and ask me if it hurt."
The abuse here is almost incomprehensible. But it happens: a few years ago, a teacher made headlines for hanging a student by his coat on a coatrack. You can bet there were lawsuits.
"I was in the only dress I owned..."
"Tried to get me suspended for a dress code violation when I was 15. I was in the only dress I owned at the time because I was going to my best friend's funeral. She'd committed suicide two days before. I was crying and begging her to just let me stay till my mom picked up my remaining friends to go to the funeral. Said teacher then took me to the office and I had to sit in the front office under a tarp until my mom picked me up."
"My 8th grade English teacher..."
"My 8th grade English teacher never published grades and every time I'd ask her about it she'd answer with, "I don't know, what do you think it is?"
IF I KNEW WOULD I BE ASKING?!"
I've had a few teachers like this. Makes one wonder: Are you actually grading anything? WHAT are you doing, exactly?
"My biology teacher..."
"My biology teacher took my yearbook away right before the summer break. I didn't put it away in time.
That year my parents divorced and I was moving away. I told her this after class and she didn't care. She kept it until the last day. I didn't get any signatures.
Ended up throwing it away. What a witch."
"My university lecturer..."
"My university lecturer was the most incompetent bloke I've ever met. He taught I.T and for the life of me, I can't figure out how he got that job.
- In the first lesson, he got us to sign up to Twitter so we could share lesson content, tweet at each other so we'd get to know one another, and also tweet him. Everybody, including the lecturer, used Twitter once. We just used the university intranet to share stuff.
- Again, during the first lesson, he announced he was going on holiday for four weeks during our first term.
- All of his lessons were PowerPoint presentations, each slide had about a paragraph of text written on them which he would read out loud while awkwardly looking over his shoulder. Once he was done doing that he would essentially repeat what he had just said.
- One day he asked us for help in booking his airline tickets online because he couldn't figure out how to use the website.
As sad as these stories are, consider that these teachers are very much the exception to the rule. The majority of the teachers I have known over the years genuinely care for their students, work tirelessly on their lesson plans, and would never tolerate a single moment of the behavior featured here. Thank you to those teachers for doing their jobs––we appreciate you. (And ya'll deserve a raise, it's honestly messed up how little lawmakers understand about how hard your jobs actually are.)
Have some stories of your own? Feel free to tell us about them in the comments section below!