Lawyers can find themselves in sticky situations, particularly if their clients are a bit, shall we say, stodgy. This formed the basis for today's burning question from Redditor D0wnl0adableC0ntent, who asked the following question: "Lawyers of reddit when was your "How the hell am I going to defend this guy" moment?"
"This guy wanted custody..."
This guy wanted custody over his children after a divorce and his wife was accusing of abuse (physical) . He was asked if he had ever abused his wife and he straight up said 'Yes, but only when she annoyed me' or something along the lines of that. I was ready to straight up leave the court room and laugh my @ss off.
This was like 6 yrs ago and I've forgotten about it until now, thanks for the reminder.
"When I did dv prosecution..."
When I did dv prosecution, there was a defendant that was on police body cam saying "Yeah, I hit her. But it's not like i shoved her face through a wall or anything." Of course, the cops messed some other stuff up, so that footage got excluded. Go figure.
"When they came in..."
*cough* when they came in with blood on their shirt.
they were convicted for murder.
the blood wasn't even for the victim he had apparently killed.
welp
"Representing..."
Two:
Representing a guy in his divorce. She claimed he was emotionally and physically abusive. He said it was all a lie. Wife's attorney produced VM he left her where he said he was going to decapitate her.
Represented a guy who was caught bringing over a load from Mexico. Claimed he had no idea what he was carrying and had no connection to drugs. When they raided his house they found twelve scales and a shrine to Jesus Malverde, the patron saint of drug smugglers.
"I just wrapped up..."
Giphy
I just wrapped up a trial clerking for a judge. I am a lawyer just not the lawyer trying the case.
Facts: Prison guard allegedly had sex with an inmate with DNA evidence. Btw prison guards can't do that even it is consensual...it is equivalent to rape. The prison guard actually said in a statement to police "I licked her va jay jay."
He was acquitted of all charges.
The attorney played off jury nullification and how stupid the defendant would sound on the stand. Spinned the DNA too. It was a beautiful piece of lawyering.
"As a student..."
As a student I was involved in the case of a double murderer who definitely did it, and did it basically for fun. Everybody in the court room knew this guy had to go away forever. That included his parents.
The defence team's focus was on:
A) challenging the crown prosecutor's evidence to make extra sure the inevitable conviction would stick
B) making the best possible argument for leniency to reduce the possibility of a successful appeal
Mission accomplished. The guy got a double life sentence (AKA 50 years) with 32 years non-parole, and the judgement was worded in a way to ensure that he'd only ever be released to a high security institution. No appeal.
"The question..."
The question could go two ways: first how am I going to defend this guy on a moral level, and second, legally what defense am I going to use.
The second question comes up all the time. Sometimes the evidence is solid, and it is hard to think of a good defense. Sometimes there isn't a good defense, just an adequate one.
The first question, at least for me, is never an issue. I've defended murderers, rapists, wife beaters, and racists. Everyone deserve a defense, no matter how serious the charges. In fact, the more serious the charge, the more they need a defense. I know not everyone can take this position, but I can, which is part of why I do what I do.
"The more frustrating moments..."
I'm a civil litigator, so this pops up a lot especially when you're dealing with a breach of contract and my client simply didn't have the money to pay. That isn't really defensible.
The more frustrating moments are the ones where you're doing doc review and find something stupid. I had one case, which involved alleged corporate raiding, a relatively tough claim to win because you have to prove some nefarious intent. We didn't get our hands on some C level executives' texts until relatively late in discovery and when we did, we found a number of texts making fun of the plaintiff's CEO on the day that my client hired away a number of his people. That would have played horribly before a jury.
"The guy I was defending..."
Giphy
This guy was an actor and he was accused of murdering someone he worked with. The murder weapon was a spear prop that he used in the show and there was a picture of him dressed in the suit and helmet he wore for the show and holding the murder weapon as he was heading to the area where the other actor was killed just a few minutes before the other actor was killed. Thankfully it turned out that my guy had been drugged with sleeping pills and was only framed to look like the killer. The real killer had stolen his suit and helmet and purposefully gotten themselves caught on a security camera to make it seem as if my guy had done it.
"During an exploratory craniotomy..."
During an exploratory craniotomy, pathologist misdiagnosed a slow growing astrocytoma for the very very aggressive and terminal glioblastoma multiforme......on a kid, who then received extremely aggressive chemotherapy treatment that caused extensive suffering before his death. That one settled.
"When I was defending..."
When I was defending a guy against assault & battery charges because he kicked the sh!t of a guy with his fancy steel tipped cowboy boots. He showed up for his jury trial wearing the boots. I still won.
"Aunt was a lawyer."
Aunt was a laywer.
She was defending this idiot deadbeat (think Larry Butz from Ace Attorney)
Don't remember the details, but what's important was that it involved him getting this one girl pregnant, while dating another girl. The girl who was bearing his child was the girlfriend of one of the guys watching the trial; turns out he was also the head honcho for the drug-dealing racket in that city. And the client had no clue.
When the client asked my aunt why shit keeps happening to him, my aunt said verbatim: "stop getting girls pregnant, you ahole."
"One time..."
One time I was thrown into a trial with an hours notice on a case where anyone would think there's no chance of winning. Then I had a eureka moment and managed to exploit a defect in the complaint to get a not guilty verdict.
The excuses people use to dismiss behavior range from mundane and meaningless to the sort of leaps normally reserved for kangaroos and Olympians. It's sometimes amazing that these excuses work - but they do.
Some of them work so well that they're just sort of "accepted." That, obviously, kind of sucks and is something we should avoid - so let's talk about 'em.
Can't swerve around what you don't see, ya know?
Reddit user TMTtasmachine asked:
What's the biggest excuse used for a-hole behavior that shouldn't be accepted as much as it is?
... and away we go.
Jerk Privileges
" 'That's just how they are.' "
"One of the biggest enablers for tantrum throwing, bullying, etc. is that they get treated with kid gloves to avoid dealing with them." - alexrt87
"Oh my God you hit the nail on the head. Whenever someone says 'that's just the way they are' I say:"
" 'Yes, that's the point! Glad you noticed too! Now is it okey-doke for them to be jerks they have special jerk privileges? Or maybe they are just people and should treat everyone else as such?' " - notatrumpchump
"It depends on how it's said."
"People are the way that they are, and you shouldn't be surprised when they continue to be that way."
"This, obviously, doesn't excuse it - but people also shouldn't be surprised when a bad person continues to make bad decisions. Neither should we waste space in our minds being bothered by it." - unlawfulfoxy
Harassment Isn't Humor
season 2 lol GIF by ShamelessGiphy" 'It's just a joke, bro.' Harassing people isn't humor." - loading__99
"Schrödinger's Douchebag"
"A guy who says/does offensive things and decides whether he was joking based on the reaction of people around him." - Eatsleeptren
"Dude, legit had someone come up to me and start shouting in my face, calling me Madison, pretending I was cheating on him. Literally the most crowded location outside a theater, everyone staring at us, looking at me like I was some horrible cheater while I was out with my then fiancé."
"I started hyperventilating, my fiancé nearly decked the dude, and then someone shouts 'CUT' like this is some big 'YOU'RE ON CANDID CAMERA' moment and everything's supposed to be okay."
"I burst into tears."
"It was the most humiliating moment of my life, and thank god my then fiancé, now husband is not the type to overreact or jump to conclusions, or be abusive. Imagine how bad that could have been for someone with an angry or abusive partner."
"Prank videos are a plague on the internet and there is a REASON so many of them are fake, or involve actors." - Darkovika
Stay Sober, Then!
Drunk Drinking Beer GIFGiphy" 'I was drunk / high / etc.' "
"Then don't drink?! Stay sober if you can't NOT be an a**hole!" - BasedBenjamin
"Alternately, I hear a lot of 'I'm a happy drunk!' "
"Yeah, according to your drunk a$s. That doesn't mean you're not an ahole. Not remembering is not an excuse either." - PepeBabinski
"I was that guy. I swore I was a 'happy drunk' - and I was. It was everyone ELSE who was miserable while I was happy."
"I was also loud, obnoxious, and I wouldn't remember sh*t the next day."
"Quitting drinking has been one of my best choices of my life." - TTungsteNN
"Help"
new girl coach GIFGiphy" 'I'm just trying to help you' " - Miserable-Air1234
"Every time I've heard this, they're manipulating me while helping only themselves." - mykittenfarts
"My Mom to a T. Everything she does is better than anyone else's and she always gets pissed that people don't praise her for 'helping.' "
"She's now a certified (by herself) psychic and I have come to the conclusion that she's not a covert narcissist but an obvious one. I really wish I was joking." - Silent_Discussion657
Parenting Problems
Leave Me Alone Run GIF by TLC EuropeGiphy"Any variation of 'I'm a Mother/parent.' "
"Had some lady cut me in line at a coffee shop and she hit me with 'I'm a single Mom of 3!' as her excuse."
"Ok? And? I was still here first." - maid-for-hire
"I'm a single mom and I f*cking haaaate when other single moms/parents pull that sh*t to get special treatment."
"Last week, I was having a rough morning, my kid was being difficult, and I was running late. I was rude to a cashier over a minor inconvenience."
"Not only did I apologize for my shitty behavior, I wrote corporate to let them know how professional and patient she was while I acted like a f*cking toddler."
"Was being a parent part of the reason I was frustrated? Absolutely. Was it an excuse for that behavior? HELL no."
"I acted like a b*tch, and I called myself out, and I apologized. I still feel bad about that - I rarely let things get to me to the point I snap at others." - ClusterfckyShtshow
"Wow. I'm a Mom as well and tired but it doesn't give anyone a right to use it as some sort of ploy to get away with stuff."
"Like, mice become Moms about 12 times a year. You're not special 🤣" - SpoonLoops
Believing Your Boss
The Office Monday GIF by 20th Century Fox Home EntertainmentGiphy"I had a boss say some really racist sh*t around me one day and the next day, out of nowhere, he says:"
" 'Don't believe half the things that come out of my mouth!' "
"It was not really an excuse, more like trying to cover for himself after the fact, but still stuck with me." - sirlongbottom441
"Report them to HR. Seriously." - kokichi--ouma
"Looking past the racist stuff for a bit, that's not a very encouraging thing to hear from a boss…" - WonderfulBlackberry9
Bad Day Again
Bad Day Reaction GIF by Schitt's CreekGiphy" 'I'm having a bad day/week' "
"Okay, so you decide everybody that you interact with deserves the same fate? Get out of here, dude." - myordinaryexistence
"We all got stress, don't take it out on me. I get some people have stress bad enough for it to be passable every once and a while (family member passing, etc) but general, stress should not lead to you being a jerk to me." - willsimpforfree
"Damn, I'm definitely guilty of this. Usually I remember to apologize after but at this point I've learned to just avoid the situation in the first place by minimizing my interaction with people if I'm in a shitty mood." - nozzzrul
"Reminds me of when that White boy went on a murder rampage and killed a bunch of Asian women & that a-hole sheriff gave a press conference telling the media that the 'poor boy had a bad day.' "
"My idea of a bad day involves going home after a rough day at work and just staying in the house."
"Apparently, I should change my ethnicity from Asian to White and go on a murder rampage, see if my @ss gets a sympathetic sheriff to say on my behalf that I had 'a bad day.' " - kingkazul400
It's Not An Excuse
Season 2 Reaction GIF by FriendsGiphy"This won't go down well, but using depression as an excuse. As someone who suffers from it, it's still not ok to treat others like sh*t" - Rainbowwallstickers
"Could not agree enough. My partner has a 'friend' who treats everyone like sh*t all the time, has no consideration for others and openly mocks people in public."
"She gets so much grace from those around her under the guise of her 'mental health.' It's so infuriating watching an adult woman never have to take responsibility for her actions." - 34boor
"I get there are some things you can't control, but you are still responsible for keeping that sh*t in check and if you're aware of your mental illness, you should be aware of how you approach people and situations."
"I'll admit I used to be guilty of using my mental illness to be an @ss, but now I'm trying to better myself" - VeeSquibbles
Florida Gonna Florida
Looney Tunes Florida GIFGiphy"People are letting Florida off the hook way too damn much. And I live in Florida."
"Just because it's hilarious doesn't mean it isn't still completely f*cked up." - AlphaWhiskeyOscar
"The phrase 'Florida Man' is almost always followed some heinous way a Floridian is being an a$$hole." - PepeBabinski
"I'm also originally from Florida, and that state has serious problems. We need to pay attention to it." - [Reddit]
Moment of honesty ... as a Floridian ... yeaaaah, I'm gonna have to agree with that last one.