
Lawyers are faced with upholding the law or challenging the law every working day of their lives.
Sometimes, the case challenges the lawyer's own moral code. Those challenges really define how those people practice law--and they possibly change it.
u/HEYNONGMAN0 asked:
Lawyers of Reddit, what is the most morally challenging case that you've worked on?
Here were some of those answers.
Family Law
Family law attorney here. I've done plenty of divorces and custody dispute cases, that most stuff doesn't get to me. It's only when the kids are put in a bad situations between one or both of the parents being some type of addicts that really gets to me.
One that was especially hard for me was a divorce where I represented dad. Mom was a raging alcoholic that would bring random guys home many nights from the bar while the dad was working. I saw video and heard phones calls from their little boy calling the dad at work at like 2AM because he was tired, but couldn't go to sleep because mom was playing loud music and had "friends" over still partying.
I was on the right side of that one, but seeing and hearing that stuff with the little boy really got to me.
Basic Necessities
During my days of insurance defense, I spent one lovely afternoon bickering with counsel for a co-defendant over who would be responsible for paying the $5000 that was keeping us from settling. We did this while on-site at the plaintiff's home for a deposition. Plaintiff was hit by a semi-truck (i.e., the truck hit his actual body) on the interstate, and while it managed not to kill him, it tore off an arm and a leg, and shattered most of everything else. He was almost entirely immobile, confined to a power chair that he could barely operate, and confided to us that if he had function in his remaining hand, he'd shoot himself.
Oh, the $5000? It was based on an estimate to renovate his bathroom so that he could actually use it. He'd been using a bedpan in the living room.
I felt like a complete jerk sitting in front of him and arguing about such an insignificant sum.
Betrayal
My friend's dad is an attorney. He started out in criminal defense, and lucked out on one of his first cases. A friend he'd known for years' wife was horribly murdered while he was away, dismembered with an axe. Her body had been found by a fluke, and there was a tiny bit of circumstantial evidence pointing to the husband. He was an upstanding citizen, the two had never fought, it was a silly case. The lawyer got the husband acquitted, and while they were having celebratory drinks, the husband admitted he'd actually done it.
My friend's dad walked out of the bar and switched to corporate law.
Repeat Offenders
Please don't ask for specifics.
Had a case where a guy shot and killed a security guard that slapped him across the face for selling drugs near a store.
I knew the guy had done it.
It was close to midnight, the crime scene had poor lighting and the shooter wore a hoodie. Only eye witness that showed up for the trial had told the police at the time of the crime that the suspect was black. The defendant wasn't caucasian but wasn't black either. That, IMO, was the argument that won the jury over. Defendant found not guilty.
He thanks me while in tears. His mother and grandmother bring me cake and a thank you note afterwards.
Less than a year later I'm watching the news and they're reporting a crime where a crew held up three families hostage while robbing their apartments. They beat up the janitor very bad. They tied the families up and locked them in one of the apartment's bathroom while threatening to thow a grenade inside if any of them decided to wisen up.
For a brief second one of the robbers looks right into an elevator camera before spray-painting it. Close-up on the guys face.
I think you can imagine whose face I was looking at.
In Spite Of
I represented a mom in a custody case. Both parents fighting for primary. Mom was admittedly a mess and suffering from some mental health issues. Dad took the kid and didn't bring them back for a few months in violation of the order. I got the kid back. Then met with mom and kid and realized kid was doing way better with dad and should be with him. Tried to reason with mom, she didn't listen. Ultimately the child protection office got involved and child was placed with dad. I last saw mom many years ago and she was still not in a super healthy place and child was still with dad. So best ending happened and not because of me.
Corporate Evils
Not my case, but at a previous firm, a partner sent out a firm-wide email congratulating his team on a great win. It detailed how their win meant that our client, Giant Fossil Fuel Company, wasn't liable for damage to the environment caused by leaks in their pipes. Instead, the tax payers would be covering the cost. The partner went on to say something to the effect of "this saves our client $x billion a year in environmental cleanup and pipe maintenance."
For some reason, even though it wasn't my case, that one has always stuck with me.
In Prison
Did a bail hearing back in my second year of practice as duty counsel, think public defender type role. The guy had trapped his girlfriend in the cab of his pickup. Twisted one arm up behind her back to her shoulder and broke it. Then did the other side.
I had to run the bail hearing for him. While she and her family were sitting in the front row of the court. She had both arms in casts and in slings. Thankfully, his surety (the person posting his bail) melted down on the stand and we had to adjourn. By the time he was up for bail again he'd retained private counsel. Who put the same surety up on the stand even after I warned him not to. In front of the same Justice.
Upside? He got detained.
Open And At Large
I don't typically do family law but I have a case where we suspected the mother had munchausen by proxy, which if you've seen the Hulu movie "Gypsy" you know how messed up it is. The child was always fine with the dad. But mom would take the child to the doctor every other day. When they didn't give the answer mom wanted, she'd get a second, third (etc) opinion. Mom was oddly close to the nurses and doctors. Child had some type of cancer where child needed a colostomy bag and mom didn't clean it. It was infected so bad that child can't wear it anymore and child is getting more sick and dying. Mom (allegedly) pushed her child in the shower and it messed up their head. It's possible mom is feeding her drugs too because child puked blood from time to time. Now the child has seizures once a week from the shower incident. Mom spent $400,000 on medical bills in one year. Mom made a fraudulent GoFundMe and only used ~$200 of the thousands received on medical bills. The page has since been removed, and the case is still open until we can find more experts to testify.
Get Out (Leave) Right Now
MLMs are considered pyramid schemes in my country and both are banned in order to protect consumers. It's a crime to establish an MLM. Public prosecution here got wind of an MLM operating and shut it down, closing up the premises and everything.
My firm was hired by the MLM to defend their case and establish to the public prosecution that they should be able to continue to operate. I had to prep all the defences while absolutely DESPISING MLMs and thinking that they're run and operated by predatory pieces of shit.
We had several high up employees from the MLM's head office in the US fly halfway across the world to us multiple times for status update meetings (lasting 15-30 minutes or so) that could have literally been done over email or conference call. Nope; they just had so much money to burn off the backs of vulnerable people who have 0 chance of succeeding in "their business" that a gang of them would fly over every so often to ask "so how's it going?"
I thanked my lucky stars every time the public prosecution rejected one of our arguments and eventually the MLM gave up and cleared out of the country. Never been so happy that my arguments were unsuccessful.
Many of us sometimes fantasize about what we would do to our worst enemies, especially in the moments when they're actively making our lives worse.
While most of us would never actually do any of the things that we contemplate instead of screaming at that super annoying person at the office, we do get pretty creative with the ideas.
Redditor take_me_there_ asked:
"What WOULD you wish on your worst enemy?"
This One Would Hurt
"A conscience. Let her realize the horrific things she’s done."
- Jenny010137
"Seriously. Introspection, self awareness, and empathy are traits that would improve a lot of sh*tty people."
- el_muerte17
"Oh I wish I had thought of this one. If my enemy had a conscience, wow life would be much different."
- Shelbysouth43
No Pearly Whites For You
"I’d like all their teeth to turn really yellow and stay yellow no matter what they do."
- toothfixingfiend
"What did I ever do to you?"
- Spideredd
"I don't even know you! Give me back my enamel!"
- AngryMustache9
Everything You Own Is Orange Now
"Permanent Cheeto fingers. Just orange cheese dust getting on everything."
- cocoapuff1721
"This has to be one of the most evil things I ever heard, yet absolutely hilarious."
-Merk0411
"The Midas Touch: Snack Edition"
- MaryVenetia
Ouch, But Forever
"Stubbing and breaking their toe and right as it’s about to be done healing it happens again over and over for the rest of their pitiful time on this hell we call earth."
- No-Bee-2971
"Sisyphoot"
- Alpha_6
"More of a Toemetheus imo"
- PykeTheDrowned
Self Reflection
"For them to realize how big of an a-hole they are."
- mayhemanaged
"Same for me. The trouble is mine probably knows what a tremendous a-hole he is, and just doesn't care (it's what defines him, is his outlook more than likely), so, give mine a conscience as well, he undeniably lacks one."
- RhoadsOfRock
"a crushing moment of self realization is something that can destroy you mentally. I wish that on them."
- chancetodream
Bury Them Under A Mountain Of Minor Inconveniences
"Always being hungry two hours after eating no matter how large the meal. Slow internet. Traffic jams no matter the location. Self doubt. Allergies. Favorite shows spoiled."
"Nothing major enough to be life altering but constant, low grade inconveniences that wear on your soul every day."
- I_Love_Small_Br**sts
"Every bite of food they eat/drink they drink being slightly the wrong temperature."
"Coffee? Warm but not hot. Cola? Cool, but not cold. Muffin? Ever so slightly frozen."
"Not enough to ruin their life, but just enough to not quite have full enjoyment of anything.."
- HappiHappiHappi
They'll Never Be Able To Use Their Computer Again
"Quick scan with McAfee on their computer."
- halflife_3
"You f**king monster."
- Orion_2kTC
"The constant pop-ups from McAfee is too far."
- _Land_Rover_Series_3
That's A New Level Of Evil
"Bed bugs."
- thrawn1825
"Currently dealing with bed bugs, and I can absolutely confirm this is the kind of thing I would wish upon my worst enemy. It is miserable and painful, and I've tried everything to get rid of them at this point."
"I would easily wish this upon my worst enemy, x10."
- ArbitrarilyStagnant
"Oh hell no, you went there... Hopefully they aren't living in an apartment complex or you've cursed everyone in the building."
- expect_less
Well of course I know him. He’s me.
"$100,000. I sure could use it."
- Sparklesperson
"'It’s no surprise to me I am my own worst enemy'"
- FishyVonFishenHymer
"Lol I thought this was that deep sh*t like 'pray for those you resent to have all the things you want in life….' Then I realized."
- No-Chipmunk9527
Forever Constipated
"That they can never have a satisfying poop. They always feel like they have to go to the bathroom and when they do nothing comes."
- [User Deleted]
"Wow. That's evil. Always feeling the need to pee would be good (as in horrific) too."
- ipakookapi
We definitely don't recommend implementing any of these plans (not that most would actually be possible), but here's some new ideas for the next time you're stuck in a meeting with your most annoying coworker and need a little fantastical escape.
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I grew up poor, and I remember the little things that made me smile when we just happened to have enough that week.
The little things that a truly rich person would not think twice about.
Ah, the luxury of it.
What spells luxury for you?
Redditor ConAir161057 wanted to compare notes about the things in life that feel like items only money can buy. They asked:
"For people who grew up with little money, what always felt like a luxury?"
New clothes. I had so many hand me downs and thrift store clothes... new seemed like a dream.
Anxiety
"After growing up in a home where every unexpected problem was a financial emergency, my idea of wealthy became 'I just want enough money that if something breaks I don't get anxiety about how to deal with it.'"
Obiwan_ca_bl**me
Literature
"Getting to buy something from the scholastic book fair."
Rich*itch3232
"My school, at the end of it a bunch of books were 'donated' and then spread out on a table in the library. We all got to go pick one book. So even if kids didn’t get to purchase a book, in the end they had a chance to still get a book. It’s actually how I got my first Harry Potter book. Was a cool idea for any school staff or parents active in their kids’ schools."
glass_pillow
Christmas
"Getting new clothes at Christmas from relatives. I don't know if that is exactly a luxury or the kind of answer you are looking for, but we never had a lot of money when I was in middle school. I went an entire year wearing the same pants everyday. The funny thing was my parents didn't even buy them for me."
"I got them for Christmas from my Grandparents. All the kids use to give me so much sh*t for wearing the same pants everyday. I always told them that I had 5 of the same pair which made me feel good inside and kind of made them ease off even though I know they didn't believe me."
"I remember I fell on the school bus one day and the jagged floor cut a hole right in the knee cap and the panic that went over me was just insane. It was one of the worst feelings of my whole life because I knew that I didn't have any other pants to wear and that now all of the kids in my school were going to know that I only had 1 pair. Needless to say I could not wait for the last month of school to end."
themagicman_1231
I'm Away
"Summer camp, or basically any school trips that had to be paid for. At my school the kids who couldn't afford to go on trips that happened during school hours still had to come to the school, we just sat in a room and did extra work like it was detention."
Helpful_Yams
"I was lucky. If you taught at the day camp your kid could go for free. That was just day camp though not sleepaway camp. My mom found a camp teacher who had no kids of his own and he signed me up as his kid so I could get free day camp. Did that all through elementary school."
randtcouple
Big Deals
"Going out for pizza was a big deal. Those free mini pizzas for reading books were huge."
Shroom4Yoshi
Food is always an issue when you're broke.
Damage
"Being able to turn on the heat in the cold and pay a professional to fix damaged appliances, plumbing, and other issues."
Liggettef
Spoiled
"When my grandma would come pick me up and spoil me. My parents didn't have much money and were addicts so when my grandma would come get me I would come back with new clothes, video games, toys, etc. I used to think my grandma was rich but she actually just had a stable income."
nawlepen
"I was in this position when I was younger. I always thought my grandma had SO much money… but all she did was go to work everyday. Always made sure I had clothes and all my school supplies. I miss her pretty bad."
Keywork29
Water
"I am from a small island in the Pacific. While I mostly still take cold showers, I have always felt that a hot shower is the finest luxury one can experience. I had my first hot shower when I was 22 years old and I can never forget it."
FSMPIO
"This is the kind of luxury I think people take for granted, I always avoided showers in the winter as a kid since most of the time they where cold showers and the temperature here was around 12c° during those times."
PowerfullDio
Showerware
"Towels. Honestly, I was almost 10 When I realized people didn’t just put back on their dirty clothes after a shower because my family was so large (12 kids total including myself) and extremely poor. I thought towels were just for hotels or were maybe a prop on television. I went to a friends house and she asked for my help folding her towels. I remember laughing and thinking she must be rich."
"Long story short, I wasn’t sure which way to fold the towels, and begged my mom to buy them after I revealed that my friend, Simone, had them. She bought a box of used ones from a local auction and I walked around with them on my head feeling like a frigging empress after that, even though—-let’s be clear… these were second hand towels!"
shakezula1025
Or BK...
"Grew up poor and when I was a kid I used to think you were rich if you had a dishwasher and a millionaire if you had one of those refrigerators that have a button for ice. McDonalds was also a luxury, a couple times a year on our birthdays."
chinderellab*tch
Everyone should have access to all of these things. Why is life unfair?
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And there are just as many grievances for which we are not at all sorry.
Curious to hear about people's track record of their questionable behavior, Redditor NanoPKx asked:
"What is something bad you have done with no regrets?"
Is it petty theft or flat out stealing? You decide.
The Parting Gift
"'Forgetting' to bring back a company ipad after they forgot about me having it. Actually they never asked for it back so I still have it and use it."
– Koetjeka
Furry Companion
"I stole a barn kitten while delivering packages for FedEx. He kept climbing my legs and getting into the van, sitting under the wheel when I tried to back out (it was a steep driveway, no way to swing the van around). I called the number on the package, looked the name up on facebook, called the local non-emergency to get contact info, all failed."
"So I took him. Now, if you're not from a rural environment, you might not understand that barn cats like that are 'no-man's-cats.' For all the owners know, he got sick or got got by a coyote. And he would have died, because when we got him to the vet he had a nasty upper resp infection and some other nasties."
"Now, one deformed nasal passage and the cutest snore later, we have a bonkers little orange cat with the heaviest penchant for snuggling I've ever seen (his name is Monty btw)."
"Edit: I forgot to pay my Cat Tax: https://imgur.com/a/HIXS4us"
"Edit Part 2: Monty loves the attention. Thank you for loving him as much as we do :3"
"MmmmMMMMRrrrrrrrrrrAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAW" -Montgomerey Valentine, 2022
– SonOfSkinDealer
The Dirty Treat
"A housemate of mine kept eating mine and my girlfriends food and even though I asked him to stop the only thing he would ever say is 'I thought it was mine' then keep eating it."
"Well I bought my girlfriend some ice cream she really enjoys and she put the half she didn’t finish back in the freezer. Well when she want to get the rest it was gone and it made me madder than I think it probably should have."
"The very next time I saw him and somehow keeping a straight apologetic face I told him how he accidentally ate our sex ice cream and that bits of it had been on our parts etc. I told him I felt guilty not to tell him and that I had to apologise for him to eat such a thing."
"I will never forget the face he made when I told him. A face of pure self disgust and shock to which all he had to say was 'I wish you never told me that' and proceeded to move out around a month later."
"Although he didn’t actually eat sex ice cream, like why the f'k would you put it back after use anyway? Sometimes I wonder if I went to far but in that moment I just did not care at all. He still doesn’t know it isn’t true and I’ll probably never see him again."
"F'k you Vitas buy your own food."
– SpicyDolphin74
Vengeance is sweet.
Payback Time
"A drunk driver hit my parked car, left a huge dent in the front driver’s side door, and then drove away. I happened to be looking out the window at the time and saw the whole thing, including his plate number. Cops got there not long after and took my statement. After a couple days and a couple phone calls, I found out nothing was going to come of it because he was the son of the sheriff the next county over."
"Fast forward a couple months, I see his car parked behind a local bar within walking distance of my apartment. I got out my hunting knife and sliced all four of his tires, and made a couple trips around it destroying the paint job. Yellow Pontiac Sunfire, and I still remember the goddamn plate number even after almost 20 years."
– IgnoreMe304
For The People
"I was a GM for a retailer that was going out of business. During the liquidation I let my employees that worked until the end store product they wanted to buy in a closet I claimed I didn't have a key to. Oh the final days I sold them all the items they requested for 95% off. 70" tvs, ipads, gaming laptops whatever they requested."
– Midnights606
Surreptitious Swap
"Years ago I worked for a wealthy dude who was married to someone semi-famous. He would waltz in every morning and talk about the fantastic dinner he had the night before, how he hung out with some other famous person or whatever else."
"He paid me peanuts. I had a hard time making ends meet."
"I was the office assistant and IT guy. So it comes time to get a new computer for one of the designers. I spec something out, and show it to him. It was a ripper of a machine for the time (early 2000s). But it wasn’t expensive enough for bossman."
"So I added a really high end graphics card. Boss was happy then. The card added nothing for the designer: they only did illustrator and photoshop."
"So I came in that weekend and swapped the graphics card for my aging one from home."
"No one ever knew. Or cared. And I got a new graphics card."
– Dudeinairport
When times are tough, people had to do what it took to survive.
T.P. Crisis
"In college I was so poor I would steal toilet paper from the supply closet in our major building."
– Business_Loquat5658
Hungry College Buddy
"I stood watch for a college friend who was going hungry because he’d been disowned and his roommates had made living with him intolerable after he came out."
"I was loosely affiliated with an off campus program with local churches that gave free student dinners on Thursdays. We would go to church to eat, then bring dishes into the kitchen."
"Anyway, he would go in there and steal stuff like peanut butter, literal bread (not an allegory), granola bars etc. while I watched out for the pastor."
"Eventually we both got caught, the pastor for the college students got a bit mad because he was responsible for us while we were there to eat. And I think it was offensive on some level to steal from church. But then he saw what my friend was taking, and asked him if he had enough to eat. My friend shamefacedly said no, not usually."
“'Okay, fine. Put the food back, and come with me.' Took my friend grocery shopping instead, got him connected with the food pantry and community garden at church instead."
– SchnarchendeSchwein
Based on these examples, people didn't twice about their actions in the heat of the moment.
Within reason, we all gotta somehow get by.
But do you think their actions deserve punishment?
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When a person sees someone they care about going through a struggle or crisis, their instinct is to uplift them with positive advice.
But sometimes, the wisdom imparted by friends isn't always helpful or relevant to the situation.
Curious to hear from strangers online who could do without specific knowledge, Redditor Saibotnl1 asked:
"What life advice can just f'k off?"

These Redditors have a problem with how certain people have on outlook on life.
Time To Rest
"Sleep when you’re dead."
"Cool, but you’re going to be dead a lot sooner."
– Tag2graff
Irrelevant Sadness
"People have it so much worse than you so don’t be sad!"
– notrachelmar
"To that I like to say, 'people have it so much better than you so don't be happy!'"
– ___jupiter____
Your Life Path
"Almost anything relating to what age you must be in order to buy a house, have children, marry, have a profession, or do anything else. Seriously, everyone's life is different from everyone else's. Make your life the way you want it to be. If you so desire. Up to you."
– Frn071
On The Contrary
“Cheaters never prosper”
"Yes, they f'king do."
– waqasnaseem07
People can get out of any situation they find displeasing.
But others feel people should just "stick it out."
Ignoring Bullies
"Just ignore bullys or get someone else to handle it for you. I have never seen this work, only makes it worse. The only effective way I've seen to deal with them is by not making yourself an easy target and make them scared to f'k with you again. If going psycho on their a** is the only thing they'll respond to that's their fault. Also want to add in schools they will punish you for self defense but that punishment is only sitting around a few hours in detention or sitting around at home with a suspension. The punishment is temporary boredom, it's absolutely nothing compared to being bullied and when it's over the important message will still stand that you will not tolerate being a victim."
– User Delted
Remain to be Miserable
"Stick it out"
"Whether that's sh**ty jobs, shi**y relationships, shi**y living situations..."
"By all means don't just give up on things when you face challenges, but if something feels wrong or is wrecking your peace then take some control and change it if you can!"
– petitezoey
"Easy for you to say," might be an auto-response to these suggestions for many people.
Invitation For Recklesslessness
"Live like everyday was your last"
Yall know what people do when they learn they have a single day left to live?"
– LimeGrass619
A Possible Consequence
"I did that as a teenager and ended up homeless and addicted to heroin. Didn’t pan out for me too well."
"19 years sober though today."
– Open-Section-7263
A Practical Approach
"If I knew with certainty that I had one day left, I'd double-check all my financials, my will, and my insurance policies, make sure my wife had all of my passwords and knew where all the money was, spend the rest of the day with her and the kids, then call the medical examiner and ask to lie down on the gurney so that when I die they won't strain their back moving my remains out of my house."
– Asteriad
Nose Stuck In A Book
"Work while they sleep. Study while they party"
"That's not a recipe for success, that's a recipe for a lot of white hairs, burnout syndrome and a stroke before your 40s..."
– Khomuna
Doesn't Apply To Everyone
"Do what you love and money will follow"
"I love walking my dogs and grilling food for my friends but That sh*t doesn't pay the bills as well as my engineering degree!"
– Elons_android
While people's intentions are good, they're better off keeping their two cents in their own pockets.
Not everyone likes to hear platitudes.
Sometimes, people just want to know they're not alone with their problems over listening to unlikely solutions that are nothing more than superficial pick-me-ups.
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