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Lawyers Divulge The Most Morally Challenging Cases They've Ever Worked On

Lawyers Divulge The Most Morally Challenging Cases They've Ever Worked On

Lawyers are faced with upholding the law or challenging the law every working day of their lives.

Sometimes, the case challenges the lawyer's own moral code. Those challenges really define how those people practice law--and they possibly change it.


u/HEYNONGMAN0 asked:

Lawyers of Reddit, what is the most morally challenging case that you've worked on?

Here were some of those answers.


Family Law

Family law attorney here. I've done plenty of divorces and custody dispute cases, that most stuff doesn't get to me. It's only when the kids are put in a bad situations between one or both of the parents being some type of addicts that really gets to me.

One that was especially hard for me was a divorce where I represented dad. Mom was a raging alcoholic that would bring random guys home many nights from the bar while the dad was working. I saw video and heard phones calls from their little boy calling the dad at work at like 2AM because he was tired, but couldn't go to sleep because mom was playing loud music and had "friends" over still partying.

I was on the right side of that one, but seeing and hearing that stuff with the little boy really got to me.

Crixer

Basic Necessities

During my days of insurance defense, I spent one lovely afternoon bickering with counsel for a co-defendant over who would be responsible for paying the $5000 that was keeping us from settling. We did this while on-site at the plaintiff's home for a deposition. Plaintiff was hit by a semi-truck (i.e., the truck hit his actual body) on the interstate, and while it managed not to kill him, it tore off an arm and a leg, and shattered most of everything else. He was almost entirely immobile, confined to a power chair that he could barely operate, and confided to us that if he had function in his remaining hand, he'd shoot himself.

Oh, the $5000? It was based on an estimate to renovate his bathroom so that he could actually use it. He'd been using a bedpan in the living room.

I felt like a complete jerk sitting in front of him and arguing about such an insignificant sum.

MountainCatLaw

Betrayal

My friend's dad is an attorney. He started out in criminal defense, and lucked out on one of his first cases. A friend he'd known for years' wife was horribly murdered while he was away, dismembered with an axe. Her body had been found by a fluke, and there was a tiny bit of circumstantial evidence pointing to the husband. He was an upstanding citizen, the two had never fought, it was a silly case. The lawyer got the husband acquitted, and while they were having celebratory drinks, the husband admitted he'd actually done it.

My friend's dad walked out of the bar and switched to corporate law.

Renaissance_Slacker

Repeat Offenders

Please don't ask for specifics.

Had a case where a guy shot and killed a security guard that slapped him across the face for selling drugs near a store.

I knew the guy had done it.

It was close to midnight, the crime scene had poor lighting and the shooter wore a hoodie. Only eye witness that showed up for the trial had told the police at the time of the crime that the suspect was black. The defendant wasn't caucasian but wasn't black either. That, IMO, was the argument that won the jury over. Defendant found not guilty.

He thanks me while in tears. His mother and grandmother bring me cake and a thank you note afterwards.

Less than a year later I'm watching the news and they're reporting a crime where a crew held up three families hostage while robbing their apartments. They beat up the janitor very bad. They tied the families up and locked them in one of the apartment's bathroom while threatening to thow a grenade inside if any of them decided to wisen up.

For a brief second one of the robbers looks right into an elevator camera before spray-painting it. Close-up on the guys face.

I think you can imagine whose face I was looking at.

Gandum021

In Spite Of

I represented a mom in a custody case. Both parents fighting for primary. Mom was admittedly a mess and suffering from some mental health issues. Dad took the kid and didn't bring them back for a few months in violation of the order. I got the kid back. Then met with mom and kid and realized kid was doing way better with dad and should be with him. Tried to reason with mom, she didn't listen. Ultimately the child protection office got involved and child was placed with dad. I last saw mom many years ago and she was still not in a super healthy place and child was still with dad. So best ending happened and not because of me.

JaxGal17

Corporate Evils

Not my case, but at a previous firm, a partner sent out a firm-wide email congratulating his team on a great win. It detailed how their win meant that our client, Giant Fossil Fuel Company, wasn't liable for damage to the environment caused by leaks in their pipes. Instead, the tax payers would be covering the cost. The partner went on to say something to the effect of "this saves our client $x billion a year in environmental cleanup and pipe maintenance."

For some reason, even though it wasn't my case, that one has always stuck with me.

GreenMagicCleaves

In Prison

Did a bail hearing back in my second year of practice as duty counsel, think public defender type role. The guy had trapped his girlfriend in the cab of his pickup. Twisted one arm up behind her back to her shoulder and broke it. Then did the other side.

I had to run the bail hearing for him. While she and her family were sitting in the front row of the court. She had both arms in casts and in slings. Thankfully, his surety (the person posting his bail) melted down on the stand and we had to adjourn. By the time he was up for bail again he'd retained private counsel. Who put the same surety up on the stand even after I warned him not to. In front of the same Justice.

Upside? He got detained.

weaselinsuit

Open And At Large

I don't typically do family law but I have a case where we suspected the mother had munchausen by proxy, which if you've seen the Hulu movie "Gypsy" you know how messed up it is. The child was always fine with the dad. But mom would take the child to the doctor every other day. When they didn't give the answer mom wanted, she'd get a second, third (etc) opinion. Mom was oddly close to the nurses and doctors. Child had some type of cancer where child needed a colostomy bag and mom didn't clean it. It was infected so bad that child can't wear it anymore and child is getting more sick and dying. Mom (allegedly) pushed her child in the shower and it messed up their head. It's possible mom is feeding her drugs too because child puked blood from time to time. Now the child has seizures once a week from the shower incident. Mom spent $400,000 on medical bills in one year. Mom made a fraudulent GoFundMe and only used ~$200 of the thousands received on medical bills. The page has since been removed, and the case is still open until we can find more experts to testify.

carleecon

Get Out (Leave) Right Now

MLMs are considered pyramid schemes in my country and both are banned in order to protect consumers. It's a crime to establish an MLM. Public prosecution here got wind of an MLM operating and shut it down, closing up the premises and everything.

My firm was hired by the MLM to defend their case and establish to the public prosecution that they should be able to continue to operate. I had to prep all the defences while absolutely DESPISING MLMs and thinking that they're run and operated by predatory pieces of shit.

We had several high up employees from the MLM's head office in the US fly halfway across the world to us multiple times for status update meetings (lasting 15-30 minutes or so) that could have literally been done over email or conference call. Nope; they just had so much money to burn off the backs of vulnerable people who have 0 chance of succeeding in "their business" that a gang of them would fly over every so often to ask "so how's it going?"

I thanked my lucky stars every time the public prosecution rejected one of our arguments and eventually the MLM gave up and cleared out of the country. Never been so happy that my arguments were unsuccessful.

ComfortableRooster

People Reveal The Worst Health-Related Advice They've Ever Received

Reddit user Ohyo_Ohyo_Ohyo_Ohyo asked: 'What is the worst health advice you've been given?'

Whenever we feel like something isn't right about our bodies or we're suffering from some kind of medical issues, we want them taken care of straight away.

The problem with that is, that depending on whom we're getting information from, we tend to believe in the initial diagnosis or remedy because we trust the professional sources and we want quick solutions.

But do doctors and health specialists always know what they're talking about?

Unfortunately, that is not always the case.

Strangers online shared their medical horror stories when Redditor Ohyo_Ohyo_Ohyo_Ohyo asked:

"What is the worst health advice you've been given?"

Not doing further research into something that raises eyebrows can be a fatal mistake.

Turns Out It Was Brain Cancer

"i went cross eyed and my primary said 'could be a sinus thing, get some mucinex.'”

"turns out it was glioblastoma."

– Guy_Faux

"Wow, that's an absurdly sh**ty doctor. The same thing happened to my mother and it was quickly determined that it was stage 4 lung cancer. She made it about 3 months after that. She was 48 and I was 18 so the idea that any doctor would ignore that is infuriating to me."

– Frisky_Picker

Second Opinion Saves Lives

"My primary doctor kept telling me that nothing was wrong with my thyroid, and I was a hypochondriac."

"I had been told at 12 years old that I had thyroid issues and she told me that doctor was wrong. I had to see a whole other doctor to get a referral to the endocrinologist because she literally refused to refer me to one."

"The endocrinologist said, I had scarring all over my thyroid, I had Hashimoto’s, and my levels were horrible, and she didn’t know what the doctor was talking about. She said she was glad I advocated for myself."

– littlemybb

Tiny Grandchild

"I was not the recipient of this 'advice' but I had a coworker proudly say how small her new grandchild was when they were born and that her daughter smoked her whole pregnancy to try and have a smaller baby. This was in like 2010, not the 1960s for reference."

"ETA: smoked cigarettes. clarified since that can mean more than one thing."

– Emkems

Unforeseen Ailment​

"Was sick for a year in my late teens. Saw multiple specialists to find the cause. Experimented with diet. Saw a naturopath that did some ‘electric pulse test’ thing that apparently gave indicators of organ health. After a few visits, and months of eating the weirdest sh*t, the test said things were improving (including my gallbladder). Months went on but I was still quite sick. I eventually ended up in hospital and one of my specialists decided to take my appendix out on a whim to see if it might help. Turns out I had something called a ‘grumbling appendix’ and it completely fixed me. Funny thing is, while they were in there, they discovered I was born without a gallbladder."

– Ok_Ear_8848

These are not appropriate remedies.

That's Not How That Works

"When I had an urinary tract infection someone told me to wash my vagina with vinegar..."

– _Puke_Bucket_

"And maybe add some diced onions and tomatoes to make a refreshing Mediterranean salad."

– Bos_lost_ton

Pushing Through

"Just push through whenever you're sick. If you can get to a doctor's office for a doctor's certificate you can get to school/college/work."

– BoyMonday

"My childhood pediatrician told my parents that 'A sick child never smiles.'”

"I tend to laugh/smile when I’m nervous or uncomfortable to self regulate."

– pinotproblems

"A doctor once told my parents that a child who isn’t crying can’t really be hurt. Because of that, it took me days to convince my parents to take me to the doctor after I fell on my arm because I wasn’t crying. It turns out it was broken."

– slowsunslumber

"Ignoring" The Problem Isn't A Solution

"A friend of mine was in horrible pain, and was repeatedly told (by multiple doctors) that she should stop complaining and just get used to it because periods are painful and that’s the way it is."

"After being blown off for years, she finally got a doctor to take her pain seriously- and it turned out she had severe endometriosis. The surgeon said it was the worst case he had ever seen in his career, and was horrified that it had gotten so advanced with no one listening to her."

– sapphireblossoms

Choking On Blood

"The school nurse telling me to tilt my head back for a bloody nose. That was an awful experience."

– hypo-osmotic

"I do like doing this because when I cough up the blood I can pretend I’m in a period drama and I have tuberculosis."

– OrangeTree81

These Redditors discovered that all pain is not necessarily "normal."

The C-Word

"Doctor said certain pain is normal as you get older. Turns out it was cancer."

– REDDIT

"That's a fibrous strip of breast tissue, you're too young to have breast cancer."

"Delayed diagnosis by 6 months. I was 31."

– juniper_max

Thinking Twice About Back Pain

"I got from a doctor, 'everyone has back pain. There’s nothing wrong with you, just use a heating pad.' It was kidney stones."

– 5hrs4hrs3hrs2hrs1mor

"Yikes, I am so sorry."

"I had a kinda similar experience. I went to the doctor for a morning appointment to get some persistent, worsening back pain checked out. Doc asked me where my back pain was, looked me in the eyes and told me I was fine and must have just slept wrong. He shut me down when I tried to advocate for myself."

"That night, I was admitted to the ER due to the crippling pain I was in. Turns out I had a serious kidney infection that was turning septic."

"One of the ER staff who helped me told me if I had waited another 24 hours, my kidneys would have shut down and I very likely would have died from organ failure?!"

"I’ve been dismissed by doctors over and over again in my personal health journey, and it is so frustrating and scary, as they’ve dismissed me for 'being dramatic' when there’s actually something very serious going on with my body."

– Yarr0wFeather

Vitamin D Overdose

"If you have pale skin, get just a little sunburnt every day so that your skin will 'learn' to get a tan. That’s how everyone else does it."

"My Solar Keratosis skin cancers would beg to disagree."

– comfortablynumb15

As much as we want to believe our doctors when they give us a health assessment and assure us we're "fine," you should never ignore your inner voice telling you that something is not right.

Your conscience is there for a reason.

Even if a doctor tells you it's okay to ignore the problem, you should think twice about ignoring your gut feelings.

Woman speaking to an audience
Photo by Ben Moreland on Unsplash

When giving a speech and making an argument, the most effective way to reach other people or get your point across is to speak with conviction.

However, speaking with conviction doesn't always mean people are speaking the truth... or even coherently.

Redditor MonkeyGentleman420 was curious to hear more stories of ludicrous things people said with unwavering conviction, leading them to ask:

"What is the stupidest thing someone has told you with complete conviction?"

We Know How Often Birds Check Clocks...

'That we set the clocks forwards and backwards so the birds don’t get confused with their migration patterns."- alliecita410

Speaking From Experience?

"'Two people can breathe underwater forever if they have a hose'."

"The first person breathes in while the second breathes out, then the first person breathes out and the second person breathes in etc'."- PahoojyMan

Dream On...

"She said:'

"'If you are dream about falling and you hit the ground in your sleep you'll actually die'."

"'It's been proven'."

"I said 'If you die in your sleep, how can anyone know what you were dreaming?'"

"Ruined a favorite story of hers."

"Sorry."- FrankieMint

falling GIFGiphy

Because ALL Cops Ask For Your SSN Before Cuffing You...

"From a coworker: 'If you don't have a social security number then the government can't do anything to you'."

"I asked if that meant, if I didn't have an SSN then I could just go kill someone on the street and the government couldn't arrest me."

"'Yep', he said, 'if you don't have an SSN then they can't enforce any laws on you'."- AllAboutThePotatoes

Keep Them Away From Needles...

"A former coworker insisted that the body believes the ears are injuries, and we are all constantly trying to heal our own ears closed."

"The only thing keeping them open, you ask?"

"Ear wax."

"We worked in healthcare."- Reflection_Secure

Credit To the Visual Effects Designer

"A girl I worked with was convinced that every single mythological creature was real."

"I’ll never forget one of her claims."

“Think about it, every movie you done seen all those creatures and aliens and sh*t, all that’s real."

"Someone has to have actually seen it to come up with that!”

"Apparently there’s no such thing as the human imagination to her."

"So yes, transformers are real, Godzilla is real, Independence Day is real."

"This was a 20-year-old that said all of this."- Dragonborn83196

Unicorn GIF by MOODMANGiphy

In Theory... Still Wrong!

"That the speed of light wasn’t like an actual number, it was just a figure of speech."- sunbearimon·

Check The Date...

"Sunburn is not caused by the sun, it is actually caused by sunblock."

"If you don't use sunblock then you will never be burned."

"Sunburn was created by the sun cream industry to sell their products."

"Seems easily testable, why not lie on the beach all day in one position with no sun block and see what happens?"

"Make sure you fall asleep for maximum effect."

"You go bright red and then blister to the point that you get taken to hospital for a combination of sunstroke and the beginning of shock then spend the rest of the holiday indoors face down with regular application of creams and replacement paraffin patches on the burns."

"It puts a bit of a dampener on your 2 week break."

"Sunburn is mentioned in Livy's history of the second Punic war and others over 2000 years ago which is solid proof that the 'Big Sunscreen' claim is ridiculous."

"However it would be hand-waved away by a True Believer of big Sunscreen."- Magnus_40

Sonne Sunburn GIF by Mitteldeutscher RundfunkGiphy

Ignorance Is Not Always Bliss...

"A distant relative, recently retired, once told me that he was going to hire a gardener and a housekeeper because 'the government will give you a grant to pay for them now'."

"This was a few minutes after a lengthy rant about how the welfare state should be scrapped because only lazy people lose their jobs and need to claim benefits."

"The same relative, some years ago, also announced with absolute conviction that he was going to hire a neighbor as a cleaner because 'she won't have anything to do now her kids are grown up'."- Plantagenesta

The Price Of Never Looking Up!

"Pineapples aren't real."

"They're entirely manmade and do not exist in nature."- tricksterloki

ALWAYS CONSULT YOUR DOCTOR!!!

"My dad was experiencing end stage renal failure (was on dialysis at the time and has since had a transplant)."

"My best friend's boyfriend at the time looked at me dead in the eye and said he could reverse his condition with a vegan diet and that the only important organ in the body was the skin, so as long as you take good care of your skin, your other organs will function properly."

"Mind you, by the time my dad got on dialysis his kidneys were functioning at 11% and his SKIN WAS JUST FINE."- lyingintheleaves

But What Causes Cavities?

"I'm a dental hygienist."

"We had a patient come in with terrible teeth."

"They thought toothpaste caused cancer."- dilapidatedfungus

If Only...

"That women don't burp or fart, because only men have (the ability to pass) gas."

"Spoiler alert: he was horrified when I burped in front of him."- sequoia_summers

Guilt Is Easier When You Know It's Coming.

"First girlfriend was religious, and apparently it was okay that we had sex 'as long as she feels bad about it after'."

"Pre-planning regret was her loophole to do what she wanted."- Lone_Buck

season 2 famalam GIF by BBC ThreeGiphy

When people do speak with conviction, more often than not they firmly believed what they say.

So much so, that they have trouble believing the person brave enough to correct them.

In spite of the concrete evidence thrown in front of them...

Picture of a pink heart tearing in two, hung off a red and white string, set against a black background
Kelly Sikkema/Unsplash

When you're in a relationship, it's important to stay alert.

Yes, you of course want to give in to love.

But when you start seeing red flags, be vigilant.

You're gut always knows more than you give it credit for.

Sometimes those flags are a sign that it's time to jump ship.

if you see them... run.

Redditor Shinfekta wanted to compare notes on why people would immediately end a relationship, so they asked:

"What red flag is an instant break up reason for you?"

The signs are always there, but I tend to put on blinders.

I need to do better.

A Big Deal

Illustration Text GIF by Jacqueline Jing LinGiphy

"Someone that casually says they've cheated. There's no way around that for me."

Kitchen-Bid-8235

"Or worse when they treat cheating as somehow noble."

2diceMisplaced

Hear Me!

"Wanting and demanding my attention but not reciprocating whatsoever."

Cranky_Windlass

"My ex. She would get pissed when she would talk to me about something while I was working and I wasn’t giving her my full attention. But every time I wanted to tell her something while she was doing nothing, she would get 'ADHD distracted' and completely ignore me or interrupt me to say something completely irrelevant."

ModestMustang

"I had a friend like this! he literally completely ignored me for 6 months and then blew up at me for not responding to him within an hour. Very strange."

KindBrilliant7879

Wronged

"Never admitting a mistake."

Curious-Force5819

"I know a total hottie that is notoriously known for not being able to admit he’s wrong, sucks because he’s a gem outside of this. Don’t get me wrong, he’s a fair and responsible person in general… but he 100% can’t admit he was wrong in banter or a light argument even when he realizes he realizes he’s wrong hahaha lost confidence in him ASAP."

Zomgirlxoxo

"This is a big one, even when these types of people apologize they still pass the blame. 'I'm sorry for my behavior but you made me really angry.'"

space_being135513

Never Again

"Unmanaged mental illness. Never again."

RuggedHamster

"I was with a girl that had that and I helped her through all of it and it was so hard to deal with it all but somehow I managed but when she felt better she just left me for her best friend’s ex and I was left with all that trauma because I loved her with all my heart and soul but she was just using me to feel better… and when she broke up with her best friend’s ex she came crawling back begging me to be with her again but it was too late.. the damage has already been done and I can’t do that again even though I still love her but I can’t tell her that... sorry for venting."

d7oomy998899

Afterthought

Sad Sponge Bob GIF by SpongeBob SquarePantsGiphy

"If someone makes you feel alone, that you don't matter, or if you are a second choice on most of the occasions, you need to leave."

Mycatsnameislegolas

Always know when to acknowledge your feelings.

And know when to depart.

Behavior

Andre Leon Talley Manners GIF by GIPHY NewsGiphy

"How they treat animals, children, elderly, handicapped, and service workers."

REDDIT

"A wise man once said: judge a person not by how they treat their equals, but by how they treat their inferiors."

Major-Ad148

Just Kidding

"Being mean as their 'thing' or 'just a joke.'"

netsbr

"'I'm just sassy!'" No, you're a bi*ch."

BansheeShriek

"I’m going to be honest, with certain friends I am absolutely ruthlessly mean, to the point that people are actually concerned it’s just bullying."

"However with strangers, I’m nothing like that. And the friends that I am meant to, they do the exact same thing back to me. We also know that if we need each other, then the meanness is dropped instantly, and it’s nothing but support and love."

5tr4nGe

​Well-Meaning

"Zero accountability for anything. Everything they do is absolutely justifiable because, well, they mean well."

Throw_thethrowaway

"Yeah, I was looking for this answer! And it’s true outside of romantic relationships also! I had to end a friendship over this exact behavior- it was never her fault, always the victim, and her hurtful behavior shouldn’t be addressed because she 'meant well…' but my feelings are still hurt so why don’t I matter?!"

helibear90

"This. Can't stand people who always play the victim or blame everyone else and never take accountability for what they do."

_5minutesalone

Boundaries

"This one may take a while, but I would break up if I notice them creeping over personal boundaries, and not stopping when I tell them about it."

"People cross each others' boundaries all the time. I'm happy to give the benefit of the doubt until it becomes apparent that they have no intention to respect me."

"For example, if I don't like tickles or being startled, don't do that. It's not about the tickling, it's about them respecting me. And if there's no respect, there's no relationship."

Ptatofrenchfry

Talk to Me

Sarah Jessica Parker Hbo GIF by DivorceGiphy

"If I'm hearing about a problem in our relationship from someone else rather than the partner. It shows huge trust issues."

"I've seen three divorces in my life, and they all were the result of the girl venting to her mother and her friends about issues she should have discussed with her husband."

michajlo

Communication is key.

If you're not talking to you're partner, why are they you're partner?

platypus
Michael Jerrard on Unsplash

People accumulate facts throughout life on a wide variety of subjects.

Some are mundane while others are weird, wild or wonderful.

One subject a lot of people focus on is animals. Most people have a favorite animal that fascinates them that they want to know all about.

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