Husband Disapproves Of New Mom's Salsa Classes And Refuses To Watch Baby If She Goes, And The Internet Can't Even
A woman's partner refuses to watch their baby when she goes salsa dancing, even though he goes out drinking and partying.
Reddit shared its thoughts on this stunning display of insecurity and hypocrisy.
You can read beatchatta's story below.
I've been married for 3 years and we have a 15 month old. We have been together for over 10 years.
When we dated earlier on and had a big break up when I started salsa and fell in love it. I was quite young then so when we got back together, although he tried a couple of classes with me, he didn't feel the same. I did some more classes off and on but then i eventually stopped going. I thought why would i keep this up if my partner won't even dance the dance with me. At the time I only did the classes and didn't feel confident enough to stay and do social dancing.
Not continuing was always something i regretted. I get really sad when i hear salsa and bachata music as the music transports me to another place and also reminds me I didn't continue to learn the dance.
The first 10 months of having the baby was tough as I just stayed at home, finding it very hard to leave the house and organizing things to bring for the baby if I did take the baby out.
My partner also still continued his social life going out to friends places drinking and coming home late. In essence, although he is a great father, having a baby didn't have a major impact to him as he did to me. There were times when he came home at 3 to 5 am in the morning from drinking at his friends place. I was home with my baby alone on New Years eve as I did not want to bring the baby out late and I knew he would want to stay out. there are many functions i would not go to as I don't like to drive home alone with the baby and know that my partner would not like to leave the event early with us.
My partner did not do anything different and continued his exercise regime even picking up an extra activity. There was one stage were he had something on Monday, Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday and was about to pick up an extra thing on Wednesday when i finally put my foot down. Tuesday and Thursdays are now my time to do what i want whether it be catch up with friends or an activity.
I was ready to finally do something that was for me again and didn't want to do a gym activity.
I wanted to do salsa primarily again. So i started going. The classes i went to was in a night club. The classes ran both salsa and bachata. My partner did say "I don't know if i feel ok with this" but I said i really want to do this, not the gym. It will make me find me again.
I've started to feel so great'again and happy that I've picked up this ''hobby." I felt a sense of annoyance that i let myself drop this as I could of been a lot better from the last 4 years if I continued on but i was determine to make up for lost time.
I've only gone to classes for 6 times and the last two classes I started going home later as I began social dancing which was so much fun and I could understand that this was what i did wrong earlier on when i started to dance.
This week I came home just after midnight and my partner was pretty annoyed with me. He asked why I was out so late and I said I was social dancing. The music after the class finished also didn't start so we were waiting around for 20 minutes to get some dancing in.
Two days later, i decided after watching many you tube videos and googling classes in the area that I wanted to pick up some more specific bachata classes to really clean my basics and do it properly. I asked my partner if he would be home from work early enough so I could see if I could do it on the day the class would be held. He was angry that it was bachata' and said he thinks I should ""calm down a bit". It was a no nonsense - No that is enough discussion close - kind of response in a loud angry tone.
i feel like this is happening again (stopping classes) and I will regret this. I know I will.
i tried to talk to him again later on so that he would understand if I was to drop this - this is a big thing as I just reignited my passion again.
i feel like I am in mourning/grieving. He said why can't it be enough for me when he said 'he wasn't comfortable with this'.
His view is that
- he isn't comfortable with me 'grinding'on other men and
- he won't look after our baby when im out doing these dance blocks dancing with strangers.
- he said ive gone from doing classes to doing these big dance sessions.
- he says that he doesn't want to invite things to happen into our lives.
- what is going to happen in two years
I've tried to talk to him and explain that yes while there is maybe some sleazy guys. Primarily everyone just loves dancing and wants to practice.
He said would i be okay if on other foot and i said absolutely. I would be more than happy if he came with me. there are married couples and couples that go separately. and then he justified it by saying I'm not talking about those people. I'm talking about us.
I've also explained that bachata isn't really that close as he thinks it is more knee to knee at this learning stage and perhaps a hair comb which is done in salsa anyway. He got angry again and said that he has seen his friends do it and it is close!
i feel like he has punched me in the gut when he said "í dont know why we stopped dancing before (when we did try the classes) and now its too hard because we have a baby. We stopped because he didn't like it and it was a chore for him.
i have tried to compromise and said - okay when we are closer to our parents (as we are moving in 8 months) - will he do classes with me then as i would love that he come with me or is this just something to say to appease me for now.
he then said - ïf i really want to do it - (like again it was a chore not because he wanted to). but he doesn't know how he will respond and doesn't think he can handle seeing me dance with another guy. he said what if he was dancing with another girl and i said - yes if it was salsa/bachata setting as oppose to a club, i will be fine with it as it is the dance. He still thinks that we are inviting something sinister into our lives. He said that he is feeling really insecure (which I was pretty surprise he would feel that let alone say that).
I dont know what to do. i just feel like im in mourning and im making the same mistake again. I said this to him and he said Ï told you from the beginning that i wans't comfortable with this. Basically - its my fault for lighting the flame when he told me he wasn't comfortable with me going .
He is usually so trusting as he is always fine with me going out dancing with my girlfriends until the early morning. His close family member almost cheated on her husband 4 months back and that really floored my husband so i know this may has also made him extra insecure.
i do recognize that a lot of partners would not be comfortable with there partners dancing but thats why i was feeling so great and balanced as i had a trusting husband who let me do something i really loved.
If i was to give us salsa/bachata again i want him to recognize what a big sacrifice this was and not a done deal because he said so. His logic is why am i giving this up for him and not for myself and our family as i am now a wife and mother.
i don't want to be a cliche and say if something was to happen with the relationship in the future, kick myself and know that i didn't continue to dance salsa and bachata for someone.
I guess my question after the long rant (thank you for reading) is - is it fair enough for my husband to ask me me to stop doing salsa and bachata?
Is there a way for me to feel more better about giving it up and being resentful? Not by taking another hobby - but having my husband recognize that this is a big deal.
In relationship for 13 years+. stopped dancing early on for relationship and have always regretted it. Started again after having a baby but husband wants me to stop. feel like i am in mourning or grieving this part of me as it really gave me back my spark and made me feel like an individual and not a wife or a mother.
Double standard much?Giphy
Your husband is staying out multiple times a week drinking (and doing god knows what) till 3am while you're at home with a baby and is getting mad that you're dancing
For all you know he could be cheating on you, grinding up against girls, insert whatever paranoia he applies to you here. And yet he's allowed to do that.
Do you hear that? It's the sound of a double standard smacking you in the face.
The husband is desperate for control, and it's dangerous.Giphy
OP, do not give up on your dream of dancing and having a perfectly normal and healthy social and active life that you need for your own emotional health. Do not end up like my mother, who is now in her late 60s and is brainwashed but also very aware of how much she missed out on and has become quite bitter.
My dad did the exact same thing to my mom. Whined, bitched and moaned and made her feel terribly guilty whenever she wanted to engage in a harmless, normal hobby that made him insecure. Whined when she joined a gym, so she joined an all female gym. He then complained and whined that the aerobics teacher was male, so my mom stopped those dance classes she loved. Then he obsessed that "lesbians in the female gym" just HAD to be checking my mom out because she was looking prettier and fitter.
He controlled her life. It was awful and she caved. Every single time she wanted to better herself he was terrified she'd get too confident and leave him. She had no intentions of leaving him, zero history of flirting or cheating, 100% loyal. Same when she wanted to take community college classes. He was so negative and whined about her not being home two nights a week for a few hours so she caved and quit.
He ended up building her a goddamn home gym with heavy blinds on the windows. And she has holed herself up in that gym. No more dance classes. He's isolated her from her fun, outgoing female friends. I'm talking about responsible, married women who had interesting, active lives, most with young kids, who got together for coffee once or twice a week. That intimidated him too.
I asked her many times why she was just caving to his insecurities. Reminded her that she was missing out on what she loved, on the dancing and socializing that was necessary for her and her character, just because he has crazy, unfounded, out of control insecurities.
She told me (with an utterly broken look) "when you really love someone, you learn to make sacrifices." That's how she justified it in her mind. (She also tried using this manipulative tactic on me when I became an independent adult and bought my own motorcycle, or dated a guy they didn't like, or didn't have a religious wedding, etc.)
You realize his behavior will only get worse, right? That this all stems from his deep insecurities. Please do not end up like my mom. She told me he was so impossible to deal with. Never was there a threat of violence, just emotionally exhausting, manipulative complaining, rule-setting, acting hurt that she "needed" to do these things", questioned why she wanted to dance and made her feel like she was doing something wrong, all of which is emotionally abusive behavior. Over the years she morphed into two personalities - the little girl, obedient personality when around him, and the outgoing, strong woman when he's not around. Its obvious to everyone.
Get to couple's therapy. Do it for your marriage, for you and for your kids. Make no mistake - your husband will have those same insecurities as your kid gets older. Once your child starts developing their personality and character and is no longer the kid that worships everything their parents do, your husband is going to lose it again and get unreasonably controlling with the kid.
This can ruin relationships and families. My dad let my brother do whatever he wanted, but as the female the rules were different and I was expected to be some nun. My mother became insanely jealous of me when I started up ballet as a kid and made me quit pointe the day after my first class (I will never forget the look of rage on her face when I was getting fitted for pointe shoes. Not until I was an adult did it click that she was angry because that had always been her dream but she let it go.) My mother was jealous that I put my foot down and insisted on doing what I wanted, such as riding a motorcycle, which was another one of her secret dreams she didn't even dare mention to him as she knew his reaction would be crazy. So, when I did those activities, she resented me and it fucked up our relationship for life.
After decades of my mom obeying my dad and normalizing his behavior, he also could not accept that I would perhaps have different desires or ideas for my life. My brother, who had a free pass for everything, thinks controlling a woman is normal. My mother is broken and does nothing she loves and has no friends. And I have no contact with my family, as I could no longer bear the screaming and guilt trips that I was a selfish daughter for not doing what my parents wanted.
I know it sounds dramatic. But get this insecurity of his under control now while you still can. He also needs to wake the f*ck up and start being a parent, not a resentful babysitter.
Maybe a compromise can be reached?Giphy
I dance bachata and salsa (and another WAY more sensual dance), and I love it.
It is not fair of your husband to ask you to stop entirely, and honestly he does not come off well at all in this post. A loving husband would have recognized that this brings you joy, and would be happy you've found something that gives you such a spark, and would've been DYING to find compromises.
So in case he's just a bit unimaginative, I want to give you some compromises I've seen a number of dancer/non-dancers couples used and that have worked.
1) You only do salsa, and sit out ALL the bachata songs.
2) You only do salsa, and sit out all the *sensual*-style bachata songs (so you'd dance dominican style or other styles of bachata, which are fast & more like salsa in terms of how much physical contact there is, nothing that looks grinding ish).
3) You start a different type of social dance altogether. West Coast Swing is pretty awesome, by the way.
4) You both set a *reasonable* curfew that is CLEAR, allows you to get at least 2 hours of social dancing in, and no guilt-tripping allowed for sticking to the curfew. This is YOUR time.
If NONE of these options work for him, or he doesn't seem eager to find another compromise, then it's not an issue with the dance.
If you tell him this hobby makes you feel alive and more like yourself, and this is his reaction...? The issue is he is so insecure and so eager to preserve his own way of life that he's willing to keep you miserable and homebound. The issue is he is selfish and doesn't care much about your happiness... I'm sorry. And I swear to you, if he is a guy like this, you'll start noticing other ways in which he just doesn't even think about your needs/time/decisions as he goes about his life. Is he always late? Does he seem to still think of your lives as his life/your life? Are you guys a team or are you always having to nag/negotiate etc.?
There is no way for you to give up dancing completely, without you feeling like he's sucked the life out of you, because that is precisely what he is doing.
Dancing doesn't have to be about sex.Giphy
I find it interesting that it would only be when she goes dancing that she would be inclined to cheat... If she wanted to cheat there are easier ways than practicing your dance moves. I have seen more hook ups while out drinking with friends till 3am than out dancing batchata/salsa.
But I do understand the feeling when the other person doesn't like or enjoys this hobby. They don't understand that we don't focus on the sexual at all. In fact it is the last thing on our mind.
With that being said. There are a lot of social gathering or social dancing that isn't necessarily happening at nightclubs. Sunday afternoon or Saturday afternoon. I've seen that in different cities. Maybe you should check it out. Often the good dancers will be there and a lot more serious dancing happens!
Hope this helps...
He needs to get over himself.Giphy
Never let your partner limit or control what you can do in your free time. Tell him to get help for his trust and control issues, because those can get really damaging in the long term.
Establish boundaries and stick to them.Giphy
This man is selfish and controlling. If you cave, he will not be satisfied; he'll find something else to take from you, and something else. Controlling people look for new things to control. Selfish people are never satisfied with what they have. You can either become smaller and smaller and smaller and still never be small enough for him, or you can draw your boundaries now.
I vote the latter, way more healthy.
You have a right to dance.Giphy
As a person heavily involved in social dance, I say you keep on dacning. I've known people who gave up dance for their partners, and they've all regretted it.
You very clearly don't want to give it up.
i feel like this is happening again (stopping classes) and i will regret this. i know i will.
So Say "No."
He said that he is feeling really insecure (which I was pretty surprise he would feel that let alone say that).
Why are your husband's feelings of insecurity more important to you than your right to engage in social dance?
Stop prioritizing his nonsense and make it clear that he needs to get past his insecurity. The method needs to respect your right to dance.
Don't accept his nonsense.Giphy
It's messed up that you've accepted the fact that he yells at you.
Especially because he's clearly in the wrong.
Y'all know that one Hannah Montana song? “Everybody makes mistakes! Everybody has those days!" That's the song I sing to myself every time I accidentally burn myself while making ramen. It comforts me to know, however, that there are a lot of worse mistakes out there than some spilled ramen. Who knew?
In fact, some mistakes are so astronomical that they're remembered for decades afterwards, leaving the one who made the mistake a legacy of being a dumba**. Here are a few of them!!!
Some may argue that the existence of the Universe was a mistake. I disagree. It was clearly Zayn leaving One Direction. But these next few were pretty bad too.
If you do the math, this is also the reason why Hentai exists.
I'll say the wrong turn Franz Ferdinand's driver made that went right in front of Gavrilo Princip.
EDIT: yes I'm aware war may still have broken out even if Franz Ferdinand wasn't assassinated
Imagine you're Gavrilo Princip. The assassination plot you and your friends had been cooking up for about the last year or so has been a complete and total disaster, just a monumental f*ck-up of the highest degree. You're staked out at this deli thinking maybe, just maybe the car will pass by, and by some stroke of sheer luck, it does.
If you're Princip, this is nothing short of serendipity.
Petition to return to the ocean.Ocean Surf GIFGiphy
"Many were increasingly of the opinion that they'd all made a big mistake in coming down from the trees in the first place. And some said that even the trees had been a bad move, and that no one should ever have left the oceans."
"In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move." - Douglas Adams
This was, in fact, a monumental mistake.
Sears not beating Amazon to the punch.
Blockbuster not buying Netflix.
You thought THOSE were bad? Well gear up for their next few, because they are 100% accurate. Except the one about Cats, that movie slaps.
I don’t know sports, but sure.
Seahawks not running it.
I used to wear a Seahawks jersey whenever I took a test because I knew I would pass when I shouldn't.
CATS is great, y'all are just boring.Giphy
The Emoji Movie.
That live action movie about Cats is also up there.
Very fair point.
Humans are not wired to have that many social interactions and maintain that many relationships. Plus the echochambers it allows people to create for themselves, no matter how conspiratorial or vile their beliefs, means that stupid/evil people are no longer shunned into changing their mind.
Not sure it was worth being able to see what a celebrity had for lunch or what new "dance" your younger cousin and her tween friends are doing.
But in all seriousness, some horrible things may now have happened if the right thing was halted at the right time.
Washington called it.George Washington Disney GIF by Hamilton: An American MusicalGiphy
Voting for people based on what side of the political spectrum they're on. George Washington himself advised against political parties because he thought they would cause too much division in this country. Unfortunately for everyone, he was right.
Big oops on that one.
Barack Obama mocking Donald Trump at the Correspondents Dinner might have led directly to his 2016 run....
"Now, I know that he's taken some flak lately, but no one is happier, no one is prouder to put this birth certificate matter to rest than The Donald," Obama said. "And that's because he can finally get back to focusing on the issues that matter — like, did we fake the moon landing? What really happened in Roswell? And where are Biggie and Tupac?"
Then he turned serious: "But all kidding aside, obviously, we all know about your credentials and breadth of experience. For example — no, seriously, just recently, in an episode of 'Celebrity Apprentice' — at the steakhouse, the men's cooking team did not impress the judges from Omaha Steaks. And there was a lot of blame to go around. But you, Mr. Trump, recognized that the real problem was a lack of leadership. And so ultimately, you didn't blame Lil Jon or Meatloaf. You fired Gary Busey. And these are the kind of decisions that would keep me up at night. Well handled, sir. Well handled."
This is the best Star Wars and no one can change my mind.
I'll take 'Star Wars Christmas Special' for $100.
That atrocious pile of manure gave us Boba Fett, so without the Christmas Special there won't be The Mandalorian.
Wow, in this article, I openly admitted my love for Cats AND The Star Wars Holiday Special. So maybe my existence was the biggest mistake of all.
ANYWAY, I hope you enjoyed, and I hope you all feel a little bit better about yourself. Because when push comes to shove, at least you didn't accidentally start World War I
When I was younger, it seemed every adult believed that you couldn't swim for several hours after eating. Why did they all believe this? I fought them on this all the time, by the way. I shouldn't have had to, just because I'd eaten some barbecue during a pool party. Guess what, though? That belief is unfounded.
After Redditor MelonInACat asked the online community, "What is a common myth that has been debunked that too many people believe?" people told us about the myths that are still around despite credible evidence.
"Do you know how many wellness checks..."
You must wait 24 hours before reporting a missing person.
- 24 hours from when? The time you realized they were missing? The time you estimate they went missing? The time of the initial report to police?
- Who is the legal timekeeper? If this is a law, it must have a designated timekeeper for official records. City police? County sheriff? Do I hire a private attorney to file a time-keeping motion in court?
- If the most likely time to find a missing person is the first 24 hours, why would you wait 24 hours?
- If the person dies or is severely injured because the county/state refused to initiate a search, doesn't that put some liability on their office? It seems like that would've been tested in court by now.
There's no law governing how long you have to wait before notifying the police of a missing person. It's nonsense. File a report as soon as you suspect the person is missing or in danger.
Do you know how many wellness checks officers go on in a day? Call it in, man...
CALL IT IN!
Why would you wait so long? It's absurd and wastes valuable time. And in the event something has happened, you could very well be saving someone's life.
"Popping your knuckles..."
Popping your knuckles is actually harmless and the "study" that claimed it caused arthritis was heavily flawed. Studies now show that it has nothing to do with causing arthritis.
I heard this one all the time.
I didn't crack my knuckles anyway because I didn't understand the appeal. Why were all the first-graders so fascinated by this?
"That if you get too close..."
That if you get too close to a baby bird, the mother will smell human on the baby and abandon the nest.
You probably should still avoid touching baby birds for other reasons like disease or risking injury to the animal though.
"That waking a sleepwalker..."
That waking a sleepwalker is dangerous for them. They might wake up confused, but they'll be fine unless you scream at them or something.
"That your hair and fingernails..."
That your hair and fingernails still grow after you die. It's mainly an optical illusion. Your skin decays and shrinks, causing hair and fingernails to look like they've grown.
I grew up hearing this.
There are entire generations of people who believe this.
"We all know the story."
The War of The Worlds broadcast in 1938. We all know the story: Orson Welle's broadcast War of The Worlds over the Columbia Broadcasting System (CBS). But people only tuned in partway through and heard the radio announcing that machines were landing in the country and were advancing and attacking. People panicked in the streets and thought aliens really were invading. There was hysteria on the streets, people were looting and traffic jams backed up as people tried to escape.
But it turns out, that isn't really true. It turns out barely anyone actually listened to the broadcast, and the few that were listening knew it was Orson Welles and knew it was just a broadcast of War of the Worlds. If there was anyone that did tune in and mishear it and panicked, it was nowhere near the hundreds and thousands that have been reported in this myth.
This one is definitely a popular urban myth by this point.
Cool story, but nowhere near as exciting as you might have heard. If anything, that mythos probably helped Welles get full artistic control of the projects, like Ciitizen Kane and The Magnificent Ambersons, that made him a star.
"You don't have to wait..."
You don't have to wait 3 hours after eating to swim. Every summer I have to fight my in-laws about it.
"Do you really think..."
That not turning your airplane mode on (smartphone) can interfere/jam communications.
Do you really think if a smartphone might endanger a whole plane with passengers they would let it fly?
"No amount of reasoning..."
That cats kill babies.
I've run into this so many times since having kids. And it's not the older grandmas making these statements. I've had 20-year-olds tell me that you can't have cats if you plan to have babies because "they'll steal their breath" or some other variation. No amount of reasoning or rationale will dissuade them of this belief.
"Maybe it's just one of those things..."
YOUR. BLOOD. IS. NOT. BLUE! Seriously tho, I was told that everyone's blood was blue on the inside when I was younger, and I honestly don't know why my Mom thought that. Maybe it's just one of those things that you only believe because your family has been saying it since your Grandma's Grandpa's Grandma's Grandma's Grandpa or something like that.
Here's some valuable advice, guys:
Google is your friend. It's very easy to debunk this stuff. I remember being taught that the tongue had taste zones––we even had to fill out a worksheet labeling the tongue's different zones. That's totally wrong, in case you haven't figured it out.
Have some myths you've heard you'd like more people to know have already been debunked? Feel free to tell us about them in the comments section below!
Want to "know" more? Never miss another big, odd, funny, or heartbreaking moment again. Sign up for the Knowable newsletter here.
As much as we're not supposed to feel satisfaction upon observing the struggles of other people, it can be hard to resist a silent, internal fist pump when some blunder occurs immediately after we tried to help the person prevent it.
It is all a result of stubbornness.
The person we're trying to help is stubborn. They think they know the best way to do something, or the exact information required for a given moment.
And, on top of that, they think we're being stubborn when we try to intervene.
So all of our attempts to help fall on deaf ears. And the results can be as calamitous as they are satisfying.
TenaciousBrit asked, "What's your 'I told you so' moment?"
Many people chose to talk about the times their friends or family ended up producing some truly entertaining physical comedy.
And the laughter was only enhanced with the knowledge that they'd just predicted the whole thing.
"Was picking beans with my sister and mom. To this day I still don't know why the fence was electric but it was. I touched it and I got zapped. It wasn't too bad but it hurt. I jumped away and my sister saw me, I said that it was an electric fence."
"Of course she just thought I was pranking her. I was trying to tell her the whole time we picked beans but she didn't believe me. Right at the end she touched the fence and she didn't see it coming at all... Her face was just like, 'Oh shi-' "
"Loved the car ride home, 'I told you... Idiot.' "
No Babies, Two Hurt Backs
"My sister and I were out sledding when we were kids at this place with a really steep hill. I had unknowingly gone down a sled path that had a jump in it, and when I landed it really hurt my back."
"So when I got back up to the top of the hill I told my sister 'don't go that way, the jump really hurts.' She called me a baby and didn't believe me that it really hurt so she decided she would go down that path on her sled."
"Well, she hit the jump and didn't get back up, turns out she fell so hard she had broken her leg. When we finally got her back up the hill and to the car, I got to tell her 'I told you so.' "
"This dumb a**hole woman wouldn't leave the llamas at our petting zoo alone, even after I warned her."
"Eventually they had enough and spit alllll over her. Green goopy spit from head to torso."
"She threw up a bunch and I laughed. Until I smelled it and then I was retching too."
Others recalled the times they trusted their instincts, only to be gaslighted by medical professionals.
But they did, eventually, get the help they needed. And the mixture of pride and frustration toward the other doctor was palpable.
"Had a weirdly dark freckle. The color of chocolate. I showed spouse and he called me a hypochondriac and if I go to a doctor, I'd be wasting their time."
"I went to the dermatologist. It was melanoma."
Years of Itchy Apples
"Since I was 14, my throat got itchy when I ate apples. I told my mom but she thought I just didn't want to eat apples and forced me to eat them."
"Went to the doctor's office and got a test for allergies."
"Turns out, I'm allergic to apples, peaches, and many other fruits."
This Was a Baby We're Talking About Here!
"My newborn baby was projectile vomiting after every feeding. I took her to the doctor several times, always ended up being sent away with suggestions to try a different formula. I tried like 4 different ones, no change."
"The 4th or 5th visit, they sent me away again with the same recommendation even though I pleaded with them to figure out what was wrong with my baby. I left the office and drove to the ER instead. She ended up having emergency surgery that day."
"The surgeon said she would have starved to death (or maybe dehydrated?) had she gone much longer without the surgery. I gave the doctors in that office a piece of my mind."
Dirt: Not Always the Answer
"Went to the doctor on and off for breathing problems to no avail. A lot of 'rub some dirt on it' mentality. Wound up in the ER as a result of an asthma attack. Kept the bracelet on and everything when I went back the next week to see him."
"Not as satisfying as I would've hoped."
And some people discussed the times they knew or predicted a piece of information, but couldn't seem to persuade someone else through dialogue or conversation.
But, of course, the truth always comes out.
Chose the Wrong Partner
"Lawyer here. Fired a partner who I found some real irregularities in their spending habits vs. what they were making after he couldn't provide a good answer to where it came from. Other partner left and started a new firm with them because they disagreed with my decision and refused to look at the evidence."
"Turns out he stole 500k of a clients money, got disbarred, and is now facing prison time. I told her to look at the evidence and she didn't listen. 🤷🏼♂️"
"Someone started talking about a bottle of Newman's Own salad dressing while at dinner with my family and I said something like 'I'm pretty sure that was started by the Actor/Race car driver Paul Newman.' to which one of my siblings replied 'No it was someone else.' "
"I grabbed the bottle and turned it around and started reading the label out loud. The first sentence was 'Paul Newman's career was acting, but his passion was auto racing.' I stopped reading after that."
He Knew Immediately
"Bed frame wasn't properly lashed down while moving, partner insisted the weight of the frame would keep it in place."
"Flew into the middle of a major intersection on a left turn. We dodged four lanes of oncoming traffic to collect the pieces."
"I fixed my partner with a look that could peel paint, and he said 'I know, I know, you told me so and you're right. I'm sorry.' "
"I still give him sh** for it every time we move something. It's funny now, but god damn was I pissed at the time."
We can draw a couple of lessons from this list.
First, know that, at the end of the day, you can only do your best to share your opinion. You need to accept that they're going to do what they're going to do.
Second, when someone tries to give you advice, maybe take a moment to listen.
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One of the most upsetting aspects of the Covid-19 pandemic––which is saying a lot, frankly––is the number of people who have been so affected by misinformation and disinformation. You know the ones to which I refer: These are the people who are convinced the virus is a hoax despite the lives it's claimed and the devastation it has wrought on society at large. Disinformation kills––there are stories of people who remained convinced that Covid-19 is a hoax even while intubated in the ICU, even up to their last breath.
After Redditor asked the online community, "Doctors of Reddit, what happened when you diagnosed a Covid-19 denier with Covid-19?" doctors and other medical professionals shared these rather unsettling stories.
"The one that sticks out in my mind..."
I'm a doctor working in acute internal medicine. I've seen lots of COVID over the last 12 months, probably 300+ cases. The one that sticks out in my mind the most was a 70-year-old lady with COPD. She refused to have a vaccine because she didn't trust it despite the fact she was eligible for one for weeks beforehand (in the UK). Subsequently caught COVID and was admitted to hospital. She repeatedly doubted this was the diagnosis. She refused to go to our COVID High Dependency Unit despite quite significant respiratory failure. Of course, she deteriorated over a number of days to the point where she was on maximal oxygen on the ward and at that point finally accepted treatment in HDU with high flow oxygen, although continued to doubt she had COVID. Died within 24 hours of her HDU admission having refused to go to ICU.
And of course, what did her family say? They were convinced she never had COVID and even went as far as accusing us of withholding life-saving treatment from her. Unfortunately, there's no treatment for stupidity.
Indeed there isn't.
A completely avoidable tragedy.
"My worst experience..."
My worst experience was when a 2-year-old kid got diagnosed with COVID. His mother had brought him with c/o fever and diarrhea. The child was severely dehydrated and so we had to do a mandatory swab test since we planned to admit him. It came positive and the mother refused to admit it. We were ready to perform a repeat test and we even advised the parents to get tested. Her defense was "The child never left the house. It's just me and the father who go to work daily. The grandmother babysits while we are away. How can he even get COVID without leaving the house." She had called her husband, he came with 10-15 relatives in a car, they broke a few chairs and then left with the baby. We just informed about the case to the COVID control centre.
"Only one patient ever accused me..."
Infectious disease doctor here. Seen about 450-500 COVID patients in the hospital since it all started. Only one patient ever accused me of using the nasal swab to give him COVID (along with a microchip). A handful have ranted nonstop about China. Everyone else has been sick enough to accept it, but lots still refuse the idea of vaccination even after being in the ICU.
"I had a lady who was maxed out..."
I had a lady who was maxed out on high flow (the next step is breathing tube) who still refused to believe she had Covid and was holding a negative test in her hand that she had taken a week prior.
The denial is so strong here.
It would be sad if it wasn't so horrifying.
"I'm an attending physician..."
I'm an attending physician at our Triage Unit. On a Friday, an older gentleman (60 + years) came in with his entire family (wife, sister, BIL, 2 nephews, and 3 children), none of them with a face mask. All had mild COVID symptoms except him, he was saturating 80% with evident shortness of breath. We insisted on doing PCR and a chest CAT scan looking for COVID but he and his wife refused, saying that COVID wasn't real and it was just a bacterial infection. The more we talked with him the more agitated he got to the point that his face was red. We suggested hospitalizing him to stabilize him and start treatment, but they accused us of exaggerating his symptoms and that we only wanted to hospitalize him so we could steal the liquid in his knees (a stupid rumor that was going around when this whole thing started).
They both cursed at us and said they were going to a better hospital to get antibiotics. Fast forward 24 hours later on Saturday, I get a call from the hospital next county over telling us that they intubated one of our patients because he went into respiratory failure when he arrived and they had to transfer him here because they don't have the appropriate equipment. We transfer the patient on Sunday only to find out on the CAT scan he had 90% of lung damage. He passed away on Monday morning.
Just before the family took the body away, I gave the widow the death certificate (that I filled out) and before walking away, she turns around and waves the certificate yelling "See! I told you it wasn't COVID! It says here: "Death due to pulmonary pneumonia due to SARS-CoV-2! I knew it was a bacteria!" I told her: "SARS-CoV-2 is COVID-19, ma'am."
The lengths people are willing to go to stay in denial astound me.
Basic critical thinking appears to have gone out the window here.
I'm a family doc who mostly does outpatient.
I live in a pretty conservative area with a good proportion of COVID deniers, so I've been seeing COVID deniers since this mess became politicized (I've lost a few patients over the mask mandate).
Anyway, I'm pretty pleased to say that several of my COVID denying patients have completely turned their attitude around when they (or a close family member) contracted COVID. Even if their case wasn't severe, the sudden terror that they could wind up on a ventilator overnight really puts the fear of God into people.
Unfortunately, I still have some patients who are still pretty obnoxious despite their covid diagnosis. They mostly dig deeper into paranoia. If not about the virus itself, then about the circumstances surrounding them contracting it.
"If Fauci had done his job from the beginning, it never would've hit this town."
"It's the entire fault of Obamacare that I can't get the experimental immunoglobulin treatment!" (It's not, your eligibility for the infusion is dependent on a list of risk factors).
And, probably my favorite...
"So I have COVID and it's completely your responsibility to fix it. I need you to send Hydroxychloroquine, Zinc, Vit D, Lisinopril, and azithromycin to the pharmacy..." Then they proceed to get pissed at me when I don't.
"During our peak time..."
I'm an emergency department physician in the US. I work in an area that had the highest death rate for a solid couple of weeks in the country.
During our peak time when we had national news crews here covering how we were a s***show, saw numerous people screaming their Covid disease wasn't real despite being hypoxic and on large amounts of oxygen due to Covid. That was an unpleasant time as this was still early (May/June) and it was extremely political like people apparently plotting to kidnap our state governor due to lockdowns.
Saw a lot of people refusing Covid testing who needed admission for non-covid purposes because the swabs would give them covid or put some sort of tracking device. They weren't pleased when they then had to be admitted to our full-blown Covid floors. Our Covid floors resembled a warzone because they were understaffed and relative s***hole conditions as we basically converted hallways into covid floors.
Also saw a lot of people young people who weren't exactly deniers but thought you basically couldn't sick if you were young. Lots of people with their lungs permanently scarred or at a minimum a couple of weeks of misery and/or spread it to their loved ones who got extremely ill.
"The willful cognitive dissonance..."
Physician here. The willful cognitive dissonance is real. It never ceases to amaze me how many patients will refuse assistance from me to register to get vaccinated, make claims that vaccines are harmful, but then accept my medical care on anything else that suits their whim. Patients absolutely have the autonomy to refuse care, but why would you continue to see a physician and accept their medical advice and care if you think they would simultaneously recommend something to you that would be harmful?
I've posed this question to patients who are vaccine-hesitant: "Why would you let me manage your diabetes and hypertension if you think I would harm you by recommending vaccinations?" You cannot get any kind of thoughtful response aside from, "I just don't want to be vaccinated."
"Some denier patients lived..."
RN here with most of 2020 spent in COVID land. I never had anyone refuse treatment when things got serious. I know some of the MDs I worked with got yelled at, like the rest of us...but honestly, that happens frequently anyway.
Some denier patients lived, many of which had accepted reality by the end of their stay after seeing what we all were going through to treat them.
Some died telling me I was a sheep or an idiot or a liar between gasps of air.
COVID didn't care.
This comment is strangely poetic.
Covid definitely doesn't care. The virus lays waste to people and... that's it. Good luck with your games of Russian roulette.
"People are crazy."
I work on a COVID unit and I ran into a patient like this. They'd tell me over and over again about how they weren't really sick and about how I didn't need to be gowned up in PPE. They even tried to take my face shield off. If you test positive for COVID two times then you have COVID! People are crazy.
Covid disinformation is a very serious problem and it's costing people their lives.
What can be done about it?
News literacy matters: It's important to get information from verifiable sources. Scientists and medical professionals are trustworthy. Those with backgrounds in public health know what they're talking about. Some conspiracy theory you received from your distant cousin on WhatsApp or Facebook Messenger is not worth your time or consideration.
Have some of your own Covid denial stories to share? Feel free to tell us about them in the comments below!
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