It brings us no joy (see also: all the joy) to remind people that John Lennon was a domestic abuser and that Hitler loved animals, Disney, and art.
We're not out here trying to be contrarian just for funsies, though.
One Reddit user asked:
What historical figure is completely overrated and why?
And the responses perfectly illustrate why we think that knowledge is important. Removing someone's humanity makes it easy to cast them as solely heroes or villains. In the movies it's easy to tell who the good guy is and who the bad guy is, but the real world doesn't work that way.
People are capable of great acts and great art while also being terrible people. Terrible people are capable of creating beautiful things and doing good work.
If we can't learn to see humans as humans, we keep looking for "bad guys" and "villains" and miss the reddest red flags because that's not what a "bad guy" looks like in our imaginations. It lets us idolize awful people because they did that one thing we like.
So let's talk about the humanity in our historical heroes.
Imagine
i really like this one the beatles GIF by hoppipGiphyJohn Lennon was a wife-beater and an arrogant a$hole to everyone. Pretty much the entire reason why the Beatles broke up.
He abused his son as well as his wife. Yet people think he was so great because he stood on stage and said "Yeah, peace maaan." He also spoke out against materialism, yet completely embraced how rich he became. I absolutely agree with you in case you couldn't tell.
- B_9_M_7
Thank you! That guy cheated on both of his wives, beat them, left his first son with no financial support for the majority of his life and all of his will went to Yoko and his second son, as well as being a massive fcking hypocrite.
Not Throwing Away His Shot
Alexander Hamilton.
The musical touches upon some of his downsides but it also made him seem grandiose too much, and glazed over most of his objectionable aspects.
Yes, he cheated on his wife, and that's bad, but he also:
- advocates for a constitutional monarchy
- firmly believed that only the wealthy should have a say
- looked down on those less fortunate, despite coming from less fortunate circumstances himself
- advocated for corporate interests and motivations in government decisions
Basically by today's standard Hamilton was the typical modern political fat cat clawing for more money and happily supporting big business meddling in government affairs if doing so would benefit him personally.
He also made his money by marrying into one of the biggest slave-trading families around, and then helped them expand that business even further. Yet, people keep telling me Hamilton was 'against slavery'.
Tesla
Controversial opinion:
Tesla.
Dude was a brilliant engineer and was in many was screwed out of his place in history by Edison and historians. But the pendulum swung too far the other way. He's made out to be some steampunk wizard, who could have provided free energy to all the world.
Tesla was also a misogynist who supported eugenics and was crazy. Also he believed stuff that was just plain wrong, like alcohol was the elixir of life but caffeine was some terrible poison.
Mother Knows Best?
Mother Teresa was a narcissistic sociopath and big on Munchausen by Proxy. She kept her patients suffering because she knew it made her look good, she was obsessed with the "power", and knew it was easier to convert the dying to Christianity than it was to convert someone who was getting better.
She purposely caused and prolonged the suffering of people under her care because it benefited her. She was a monster and needs to have her Sainthood revoked.
She considered suffering to be a gift from God, and so didn't really go to much lengths to prevent it in the orphanages etc that she ran.
An organization of hers called Missionaries of Charity in India was found to be selling babies/children. She knew about the children being sold. You can look this up
The $20 Bill
Andrew Jackson.
He's on the $20 bill, even though he acted against the orders of the Supreme Court and violated the constitutional rights of Native Americans.
He also started a war with the Seminoles in Florida illegally, sending troops down dressed as Georgia militia to start a war that his federal army could intervene in. Then America lost that war.
Jackson started that war because Florida and the Seminole nation were a refuge for runaway slaves, but many black Seminoles were second or third generation, or the descendants of Africans who were never enslaved. The war was fought mainly to prevent Jackson and the army from rounding up and enslaving the black Seminoles.
The treaty of that war became the legal precedent for the Emancipation Proclamation.
Important For India, But Not A Good Person
Mahatma Gandhi Help GIF by INTO ACT!ONGiphyGandhi. Horrific racist towards Blacks and (other) Asians as well as White people. He was important for Indian independence yes, but not a good person.
Indian here. It is actually believed by some (based on well-established and recorded facts) that Gandhi actually postponed India's independence by 20-odd years by actively discouraging armed revolutions, which were beginning to create a serious impact.
His 'ahimsa' (non-violence) policy was very partial, ignoring heinous tortures by the then government upon the prisoners of revolution, but condemning any act of violence by the revolutionaries. He actively opposed Subhas Chandra Bose, who is considered one of the greatest contributors in the freedom struggle of India.
No stranger to taking a sandal to his wife, too. Baldy little bastard.
And because he was a racist pervert who thought Black people were apes and sleeping naked with his closest followers' wives and daughters was a good idea to "test" his own chastity.
- Filgidus
Riding Daddy's Coattails To Greatness
Alexander the Great.
Little pissant rode Philip of Macedon's coattails all the way to historical greatness. He would have been nothing without the army and the military strategy built by his father. The oblique cavalry charge was a stroke of brilliance, and Alexander was such an ungrateful little sh!t that he murdered his best friend for reminding him where his military might actually came from.
I'm not sure if Alexander so much rode Philip's coattails as he stole Philip's coat and kicked him out to freeze. It's suspected that Alexander had him killed.
JFK
JFK, he did almost nothing and expanded the disastrous Vietnam war, I really don't get why he is such an iconic figure
Don't forget extreme nepotism and and a list of ladies a mile long that would #MeToo him in this day and age.
Don't forget about actively blocking Civil Rights for black people.
- jdb888
If you get killed, what you did doesn't matter much. You'll be glorified because no one wants to criticize a dead guy, especially someone who was assassinated
Barely Qualifies
A lot of "successful businessmen" are super overrated, not just as people but as being intelligent, successful, or even ruthless. Leland Stanford, for example, was a bumbling idiot who was looked down on by his co-conspirators in the railroad business because he was so stupid. It's just that he was willing to be immoral and dishonest in order to get lots of money handed to him.
It's weird reading about historical figures like him and then looking at someone like Trump and how much worship there is of his "business acumen" while listening to him speak and seeing how his business ventures worked out and realizing he barely qualifies as a used car salesman.
Winston
Winston Churchill. He was a good military tactician but an awful politician driven by narcissism and greed. He was a racist who committed atrocities overseas and was a misogynist who didn't think women should be allowed to vote.He was no more opposed to killing innocent bystanders than Hitler or Stalin - and the Irish were only ONE of the groups he slaughtered. As well as all that, he was by pretty much every account you can possibly hear of him, an extremely nasty man.
- B_9_M_7
I think people then kinda realized it though, you have to be a pretty big douche to be a wartime hero and still get voted out during said war.
To add onto that, three words: The Bengal Famine
Nice Plane, We Guess
Charles Lindbergh. He was denying the Holocaust before it was cool n 1939. The "Final Solution" wasn't approved til 1941, but in 1939 Lindbergh was loud and proud about denying that Hitler and the Nazis were discriminating against the Jews (cause that's just Zionist lies.)
And that's just one of the sh*tty things he did. He was also a prolific adulterer, an ardent white supremacist, a shill for dictators and authoritarians (as long as they were white and not Communist), a life long eugenicist, and a general a$hole.
To be fair, none of those things were really unusual in his time but it's amazing how everyone only knows him as that guy who flew a plane cross the Atlantic.
Also, it's possible he caused his son's death as a prank.
Too Hot To Breathe
Constantine the Great. He grabbed onto Christianity to make himself popular and also murdered his son and wife. Not a great dude, and actually had his wife killed by locking her in a sauna and making it too hot to breathe.
I attended a lecture by a medieval scholar who told a story of how, before chariot races, it was common for statues of Roman gods to be rolled around the arena and everyone would bow down to them. Once Constantine "converted" to Christianity, he had the heads of the statues knocked off and replaced with his own head, and the same ritual would be performed: thousands of people bowing down to the emperor-at-the-head-of-the-gods even though he claims to worship the Christian god. Then there's also the 40 ft. colossus he had built of himself. It seems he had a very large ego.
The Soundtrack Is Pretty Great
hugh jackman dance GIF by 20th Century Fox Home EntertainmentGiphyHe's not exactly "historical" but P.T. Barnum is a racist guy who enabled slavery. And people are applauding the movie The Greatest Showman?
Rebel Flag, But Not A Rebel
Robert E. Lee
He was, in my opinion, maybe a worse person than any southerner that believed in slavery. Why? Because he actually didn't believe in slavery or secession, but was willing go with "his people" strictly for the reason that they were his people.
Lee didn't feel comfortable being an ACTUAL rebel and abandoning the society he happened to grow up in for his own personal sense of right and wrong- he put blind loyalty over the well-being of millions of slaves, soldiers, and innocent American townspeople.
Happy Columbus Day
Christopher Columbus.
In America we still teach kids that he was the "1st to discover America." We conveniently leave out the fact that he was a murderer and slaver who destroyed many lives and cultures.
We also don't mention how the Native Americans migrated here through the Bering Straight, or that the Vikings reached the "New World" long before Columbus.
Columbus was worse than you think. Firstly, he was not the first European to discover the Americas. (It's believed that Vikings discovered the Americas as early as 900 CE). He actually landed on a peninsula in Venezuela. He treated the Natives like garbage, and was even known to feed some of them to dogs. So, yeah. Happy Columbus Day.
- TheBoldK
Christopher Columbus
1.he kidnapped Carib women and gave them to his crew to r*pe
2.he kidnapped and enslaved more then a thousand people on Hispaniola
3.he forced the natives to collect gold for him if they didn't he would kill them
4.he would abuse the men in his crew
5.he r*ped and torture a lot of women because he saw them as gifts
A Cheese Grater To Your Brain
Ayn Rand. None of her stories/philosophy makes sense if you try to approach them from a logical viewpoint. And besides all that, the writing style is so dry and stilted that it feels like reading one of her books is like someone taking a cheese grater to your brain.
Beethoven
I went through every comment and was surprised by no mentions of Beethoven.
Was he an amazing composer/pianist? absolutely! However, he was a terrible person. I don't remember the full details and would encourage you to look up more reliable sources than some random chick on reddit, but he was basically just an ass. Not to mention he drove his nephew to suicide.
- ventext
Other Countries Did It Without Killing Tons Of People
Abraham Lincoln.
Being famous for ending slavery by killing a good chunk of the population is not really that honorable or prestigious. If I am not mistaken, few countries had major issues abolishing slavery as a whole, let alone ensuing a civil war. So what happened with America?
Finally someone said it.
Dude. You seen how bad we took having to wear cloth masks in public places?
- paraouji
This certainly makes us see things in a totally new light!
Do you have anything to add? Let us know in the comments below!
Sometimes it's fun to toy with someone.
Especially if it's an enemy or a loved one who simply deserves a good ribbing.
Some cryptic sentences can send anyone into a tailspin.
And oh the fun that can be had.
You have to be as vague as possible and as sincere.
You have to sell the sincerity. That's vital!
And then just watch them implode.
Redditor theary18 wanted to hear about the most creative ways to throw somebody off their game, so they asked:
"What is the best thing to say to someone to subtly f**k with their head?"
I love to come up behind someone and say "I can't believe they would treat you this way. I got you girl!"
Then I scurry away.
Tee-hee...
It's YOU!
For Me GIF by Liz HuettGiphy"Just tack on the phrase 'given your history' to any question you ask someone."
"Are you sure you want another drink? Given your history?"
"Do you mind driving? Given your history?"
hamletreset
Mean Kids...
"I moved to my elementary school in the 5th grade. Mid-year, a boy came up to me and said, 'I really thought you were gonna be somebody.' I'm now 45 and I'm still like, what the f**k was he talking about?"
NicklePlatedSkull
"Likely something they heard a parent say to someone. Kids love to repeat the dumb stuff you say the next day at school."
itsallgoodman2002
"All jokes aside he probably thought you were someone else. I've done the same things countless times and it's happened to me a few."
Download_more_ramram
"I would interpret this as this kid hearing there's gonna be a 'new kid' and then their imagination ran wild as to who this new star is going to be, that it will be like in some kid movie or something, but you turned out to be just another kid student."
i_was_planned
I Like You
"I don't get why other people don't like you."
Dependent_Main2643
"Another variant is..."
"I don’t care what everyone else is saying. I think you’re great!"
"They’ll take it as a compliment at first but then they’ll think about it and it’ll eat away at them."
Oh-Cool-Story-Bro
"A guy I work with says this time to me every time I help him 'I don’t care what everyone else says about you you’re alright. Literally everyone else. We did a poll.' XD guy says some crazy s**t. When he started he tried to convince us he was a flat earther. He just likes fucking with people."
ThreeBeatles
Rumors
“'I heard about you.'"
ignorantpigeon
"Whenever I hear this I always respond with 'if it’s all good, it’s all lies.' Usually shows my sense of humor and if it is bad things they heard it usually lightens the mood."
ElApolloLoco
"Years ago I worked at a cafe and function venue which was sold after a few years to a new catering company. The first time I met the new restaurant manager I introduced myself and she exclaimed 'Oh, you’re winoforever!' and I was a bit weirded out. Then not long later I met the new owner and she also said 'Oh, you’re winoforever!' I still wonder twenty years later what they’d both heard about me."
winoforever_slurp_
Problems
Drunk Party Girl GIFGiphy"Go up to someone at a party and say: 'I just want you to know that personally, I have no problem with you being here.'"
LuketheMook
"I once got drunk and effectively said that to a girl at a wedding. 'I don't care what everyone else thinks, I always liked you' or something like that."
Supersnazz
Parties are the perfect setting for these shenanigans.
Especially with the drinkers.
But get them at least semi-sober.
I got You
Okaay What GIF by ABC NetworkGiphy"If you are chatting with someone and another person walks up look at them and say 'I just want you to know that I was defending you' then turn and walk off. It's a good 2fer."
could_use_a_snack
Hush
"'We know, but don't worry, we'll keep it a secret.'"
ch3rrycsmos_
"A friend in high school (actually still a current friend) said something similar to me and it definitely f**ked with my head. 'You know you're not fooling anyone, right?' He wouldn't elaborate and it took me the rest of the day to figure out he was f**king with me. As a guy with imposter syndrome, especially as a teen, that had me turned for a bit."
ablackcloudupahead
You Again
"If it’s someone you interact with repeatedly, always introduce yourself as if you’ve never met before."
Stillwater215
"I keep doing this to a guy I see very occasionally. He's a friend of my sister-in-law, but I've introduced myself to him at least four times. Right now, I'm trying to picture his face and I totally can't, so if I see him again, I'll introduce myself again. He remembers me though. And I don't have this issue with anyone else, I just can't remember this guy's face for some reason."
KrtekJim
Big Mouth
"You really need to brush your teeth."
setthepinnacle
"Somebody jokingly left a message on the 'tip' line that said 'Take a breath mint.'"
"I'm like 90% sure it was just the first thing that came to his head but it f**ked with me for weeks. I was self-conscious when talking to people, being close to them with my mouth open, and I'd constantly be brushing longer/harder taking mouthwash a couple extra times a day, and using mints."
ToFaceA_god
Head Issues
Think About It GIF by IdentityGiphy"Give all your friends a few dollars to compliment their hat if they’re not wearing one. When 50 people insist you’re wearing a hat, you start to think you’re wearing a hat. It will drive them insane."
Stillwater215
Hats off for that last one. That's harmless but devious.
Do you have any tips to add? Let us know in the comments below.
Unlike introverts who tend to shy away from engaging in random discussions, those who are comfortable–or too comfortable–in their own skin love to get all chatty.
That doesn't mean they have anything significant to say.
"What’s the weirdest thing someone casually told you as if it were totally normal?"
People whom you don't know tend to overshare as these Redditors experienced.
A High Request
"A story from a friend - in Colorado, someone once asked, 'Could you watch my wolves, I can pay you in weed.'"
"There's a lot to unpack in that question!"
– surlymoe
"You don't unpack wolves, you keep them together."
– hwarang_
Unsolicited Prediction
"Husband (30) and I were pushing our shopping cart out of the grocery store when a random man (who honestly looked like dumbledore) looked at my husband and said 'take my hat, you're gonna need it, you'll be bald very soon.' Obviously my husband didn't take it. It was super odd of him to say because my husband had a FULL head of hair."
"Three months later, my husband was diagnosed with a condition that made him lose all of his hair. Weird coincidence."
– hollyjollyaf
Self-Casting
"A guy once told me how he loved the feeling of wearing casts, so he'd put casts on himself- for days or weeks on end. Even if it meant he couldn't drive and would be stuck at home the entire time. He'd use vacation time just to wear full leg & arm casts."
– Present_Dust_2308
Homophobic Homosexual
A homophobic guy I know: 'Being gay is a choice.'"
"I said something like - ok, choose to be gay for a day, an hour, a single minute if you can."
"Guy - That's easy, I'm attracted to men all the time, I just choose to only like girls because I'm not gay."
"Me - Ummm..."
– discostud1515
Longheld Grudge
"Once, an older woman came up to me on the street, took hold of my wrists and simply said 'they ripped out my afterbirth', and then carried on walking."
– JennyW93
"It's strange to grab strangers. But one day in Walmart, my granny walked ahead of me, and reached to grab me to show me something, without looking and she was pulling on an old lady's arm obliviously, and the old lady's eyes were like O.O."
"My grandma didn't even apologize, she just let go and yelled at me to stay closer."
– chzygorditacrnch
A Hairdresser-In-Training
"I was getting my hair done this last weekend by my daughter at her cosmetology school. One of her fellow students was excited to meet me. She talked nonstop and eventually told me that she has hemorrhoids and that she has her husband push them back in. So much TMI from a stranger!"
– Digjam823
You never know about the personal lives of people you see on a regular basis.
Squeaky Clean
"I had a college professor on the first day of class say that she is obsessed with Q-tips and cleaning her ears and that her family has to limit her to 3 a day-"
– lokeilou
Here's The Story...
"That they have 6 kids, all with different dads & each dad is in prison."
– ChyCgx2
"I once had a coworker who had seven kids with five different women and he'd constantly complain about how most of his paycheck went to child support. You uh, dug your own grave, pal. I'm really not sympathetic to your plight."
– apocalypticradish
It's the end of the world as we know it.
End Of Civilization
"I know a guy, we don't talk often but due to business we cross paths on occasion. More or less every time we talk he asks if I'm ready for the total societal collapse coming next week, or Tuesday, or at the end of the month.. and so on."
"I just tell him that it's not gonna happen; he usually then asks about my "crystal ball" so I remind him that I've been right every time."
– rkpjr
Zombie Apocalypse
"I went to a ComicCon type event in my city years ago(Walking Dead was a new show, first season for reference) and went to a panel about zombies. They talked about historical zombie lore, the first zombie movies, and the exciting first season of the new show Walking Dead, with some actors on the panel. When they opened it up to the audience for questions one of the first ones was, 'what kind of zombies do you predict we’ll have in a real zombie apocalypse? (Fast vs slow)'…panelists don’t really know how to answer, each gives their personal favorite or worst case scenario. Then we get to, 'What do you think the timeline is for the start of a coming zombie apocalypse?' Panelists are kind of like….? Talk about how things usually play out fiction."
“'No, but exactly WHEN do you think we’ll need to be fully prepared for zombies in real life?' Like, guys, these are actors and media studies academics, first of all they don’t have the level of belief you do and second, the people you should be asking about this stuff are probably biologists."
– AlternativeAcademia
Whenever I feel threatened by a homeless person who is pressuring me to hand over them cash, I tell them, "I''m allergic to corn."
The random phrase throws them and in the brief moment they assess what they heard I'm afforded more time to distance myself from them.
It always works, especially when they realize I'm all kinds of crazy and not worth targeting.