Doctoral Candidates Who Couldn't Defend Their Thesis Explain Just What Happened
Wow. I lost track.
Defending your thesis is no joke. I've had friends crack up while preparing. It plays out like an episode of "Defend Your Life." In many cases you are defending your life. Your thesis is more than words on a page, it's a fundamental belief that you've been working towards for years. Everything learned and gained has had a part to play in the birth of that brief. So it can be gut wrenching and life altering when you find yourself at a loss in it's moment of reckoning.
Redditor u/dexMiloyev wanted to know about the times as a student when many of us were left.... stumped by asking.... Doctoral candidates who couldn't defend their thesis, what happened?In Bed
doctor who blonde woman GIFGiphyOne of my colleagues in grad school didn't finish his dissertation. Our advisor moved universities and told him he wasn't invited.
My friend had a nervous breakdown from which he never recovered. His wife divorced him because he spent all day catatonic in bed for months, and they had two young children to take care of.
Remind me Later
I've only heard of one or two people who didn't pass in the 6 or so years I was in grad school. They just worked on whatever their committee said to expand on and re-did their defense at a later date. Your advisor really shouldn't let you get to the point where you're defending and there's a chance you won't pass. It's more common that people will Masters out or go ABD, but not outright fail.
20 Years Later....
In the early 1970s, my father was an Ed.D candidate, and his thesis was on the topic of self-pacing computerized instruction (at the high school level). He taught himself the Basic programming language and everything, and was quite confident of success.
His thesis was summarily rejected because "there will NEVER be computers in the classroom" other than postsecondary computer science curriculums.
20 years later computers were everywhere in our schools, and you could go to any big box store and buy educational software similar to what my father had envisioned.
The Thief
late night lol GIF by The Rundown with Robin ThedeGiphyWhile in graduate school, a professor at my university came up with an idea to write his thesis on. He told his advisor, who basically laughed him out of the room and told him it was a ridiculous idea. A year later, he learned that his advisor had stolen his idea and written a paper on it to be published in a major scientific journal. The student (my current professor) then left the program in disgust and just finished with a master's instead. Pretty good physics professor though.
Eventually....
I knew a PhD student in Math who discovered halfway through her doctorate that the problem she was working on to get her PhD had just been solved by someone else. She was able to work with her advisor to find a way to make the work she applied to that problem be applicable to a similar one. She eventually earned her PhD.
dead to rights....
I have a friend who is a tenured professor at a major university. He submitted a proposal to a funding agency. He later discovered that the program manager had not only stolen his idea, but even reused substantial amounts of text from his proposal in a publication. It turned out that the same guy was in the process of being hired by my friend's university for a leadership role.
Even though he had the guy dead to rights, and my friend's position was fairly secure, the politics of the situation made him too fearful to mention it to anyone.
I can only imagine what might happen to a mere student who accused a professor of this kind of misconduct. The sad truth is, even if the student had unimpeachable evidence, I think a lot of people would choose to obstruct and bury it and destroy the student's life rather than burn a colleague.
Take 2....
We have a family friend who was in a PhD program that basically got disbanded. Like his advisor and several other faculty members got fired. I believe they ended up giving him two master's degrees, Which is nothing to sneeze at but he did the work for a PhD.
Not Passable....
New York Yankees Reaction GIF by MLBGiphyFrom my experience in grad school, your committee is there every step along the way.
You cant even start until you have an approved thesis prospectus. In this structure, you know if you're ready to defend or not. A member of my cohort was told prior to her thesis defense that she wouldn't pass, so they rescheduled for later.
Frozen...
It's exceedingly rare to outright fail a defense as others have mentioned. One person in my department failed their final defense because they froze up and couldn't even answer the easiest questions from their committee. Most people I know of who didn't complete their defense either left voluntarily with master's degrees for various reasons or failed out for silly, preventable reasons like plagiarism or not turning in their written qualifying exams on time.
Really Fool?
new girl facepalm GIF by HULUGiphyHad a Chinese doctoral student in the program I worked for, who was intentionally putting off and screwing up his thesis process. He only had a student visa, and didn't want to go back to China.
Don't be Salty
I know a guy that eventually got his PhD, but it took extra work and encouragement. Poor guy. His adviser left for another university and forbid him from publishing like 2/3 of his work/data. He failed by trying to honor the former adviser's wishes; he was so depressed and going to just accept it. I was freaking livid, and so was everyone else with a graduate degree that heard about it. In the end he presented all his work, got his PhD, and left for a postdoc. His former adviser was told to pound sand. I'm still a little salty.
"all but defense"
OP, since you're an undergrad perhaps this is new: no competent advisor will let a student defend without meeting requirements. It would be a huge embarrassment for the advisor and committee to fail a candidate at the defense, because it implies they didn't do their supervisory job prior to the defense. Good advisors are invested in helping people in their group succeed.
Nevertheless, not everyone who starts the program will finish. People can drop out for every imaginable reason. From failing to meet the requirements for a PhD (e.g., not producing original work of substantial impact), to losing interest in the topic, medical problems, having problems with their advisor, getting an industry job, deciding to move...
For completeness: the impact of the original research and publications generated during the PhD are the key to a solid defense. Sometimes people put "all but defense" in their resume. This means they took classes and did not defend. But the point of a doctorate is not to take classes, but rather to contribute to the state of the art.
Cheers
Shake Cocktail GIF by Team CocoGiphyI went to post grad school with a few who couldn't or who timed out. They are known as all but dissertation or ABD. They typically find work relating to their masters degree... or they bartend. Those are literally the top two options I've witnessed!
Years later...
The thesis directly opposed the main premise of the field at the time, the board had a political stake in preserving the status quo. Went to another school and they immediately were just like, yep, here's your PhD. Years later, the original school's board was found to be taking oil money on the side.
Just Fail
Failing the defence (or not being allowed to defend) happens, but rarely. What is far more common is failing the comprehensive exams that most PhD programs require. Comps usually happen before or around the time of proposal approval. They consist (for me at least) a reading list of c.260 books that you have to complete three written exams on and two oral exams. It's not uncommon to fail them and not be allowed to continue.
Upon Review....
Not me, but my friend at her quals. She walked in, and the committee said, "We've reviewed your work, and we can tell that you won't pass this. Therefore, we're not going to give it to you so that you don't have it on your records that you failed. Withdraw from the program."
I was crushed, and it wasn't even me.
Predictable...
Giving a serious answer here...
If your dissertation advisor is any good whatsoever, they will tell you when you are ready to defend and not allow you to defend until that point. For this reason, it is rare that a doctoral candidate ever fails to defend. The only times I have heard of it happening are when a student insists on defending even though their advisor says they are not ready, with predictable results.
I Made It...
Idk GIF by VidConGiphyI have always been a horrible procrastinator and did not have the demeanor to complete a PhD. Did great in the coursework first two years then failed out after the third year. Now I make a lot of money as a quant.
Give me my backpack...
There was a guy in my program before I started (early 2000's) that had ALL of his data on one flash drive. He lost it when his backpack was stolen. Rumour had it he almost committed suicide after loosing like 3 years of work. He never finished and I think he went into a trade. Probably makes more money this way so good on him.
In the Netherlands...
My grandfather did not have to defend his thesis because he did not have to make one. In the Netherlands one could do doctoral by defending a number of assertions/propositions in front of the professors. So a real oral exam. He studied law, so he had to make a list of about 60 topics in different fields of law (criminal, civil, bankruptcy, merchant, sea etc.) like e.g. 'victims of violence have enough/not enough ways of getting compensation' and was questioned in depth about those. Apparently he did well, got the doctorate, and 25 years later Leiden University gave him a special diploma commemorating his doctorate.
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It's not surprising that each country is different, with various beliefs and rules, but what is always eye-opening is what one country will deem a basic necessity, another will deem an expensive, even allusive, luxury.
Americans in particular are often perplexed by the luxuries that Europeans are able to enjoy on a daily basis, which Americans would not be able to have without paying a premium.
Redditor Specialist-Metal-458 asked:
"Americans, what do Europeans have every day that you see as a luxury?"
Required Vacation Time
"My husband (we’re Canadian) did his post-doc in Finland; when he was signing his contract, they said, 'You’ll get six weeks paid vacation and you HAVE to take it.'"
"He was shocked. He had friends elsewhere doing post-docs who were doing 14-hour work days, six to seven days per week, and with no vacation, let alone PAID vacation."
"One of the years when he was nearing the end of his cycle, HR reached out and in a panic said, 'You have 3.5 days that you HAVE to use,' unbeknownst to us. So, we booked a trip for an extended weekend away."
"I miss that. And it’s something we both negotiate when starting new jobs; rather take a bit of a lower salary with more vacation time."
- ahope1985
Paid-Paid Vacation
"Six weeks vacation, extra pay just for vacation (at least in Germany), government healthcare."
- Royal_Acanthisitta51
"Wait. Is that paid... paid vacation??"
- a**lly_ExpressUrself
"Yes, lots of companies give half a month extra pay for vacation each year. Some also give half a month's extra pay for Christmas. It's like, 'Here's some extra money for you to have a nice vacation or a nice holiday.' It's quite common for larger companies."
- DnDVex
"I am an American who is now living in Sweden and a Swedish citizen, and I will never NOT be amazed that I have the legal right to four continuous weeks of paid vacation during the summer. THE LEGAL RIGHT."
"Literally amazing."
- ingenfara
Affordable Drinks
"This is only really true for Southern Europe, but cheap wine by the glass, cheap coffee, and pastries."
"Cafes in the US are marketed as very trendy and if you want a pastry and a coffee, you should be ready to pay eight to ten dollars. In most of Italy, Portugal, and Spain, you can get coffee and a croissant for three euros (approximately three dollars)."
- kulkdaddy47
Particularly Affordable Wine
"Where I live in Spain, the standard price for a glass of wine in a cafe or every day (non-fancy, equivalent of a diner) restaurant is 80c - €1. In a restaurant, I’ll usually order a half liter for about €4 (That’s 2/3 bottle of wine)."
"Soda and bottled water are more expensive. Soda is usually €1.20-1.60."
- KimchiMaker
"At Denver International Airport last month, I paid $23 for a glass of wine that I know would cost about $7 per bottle at Costco. Probably €4 per bottle in Italy. It was like getting robbed in broad daylight without a gun, but I get really nervous before flying."
- Missmoneysterling
Slower Living
"Time! I spent time abroad in Italy for school, and there was just so much less of a 'rush' everywhere. Oftentimes the latest person to my classes were professors. Everyone really took their time and I didn't really feel the bustle of constantly 'going' somewhere when I was there."
"I mean, dang, the village my apartment was located in shut down for a few hours in the afternoon so the shopkeepers could go have lunch. It was wild."
- SpaceMush
University-Bound
"Affordable universities… our daughter is going to university in Scotland. Our US friends always respond with shock at the 'luxury' of going overseas for school until I tell them it’s half of the cost of an equivalent US college. That includes travel expenses."
- Crafty-Arachnid6824
Accessible Public Transportation
"This blew me away traveling in Europe. It doesn’t matter where you are, even if it’s some middle-of-nowhere farm town, you’re never far from a train station, and you can just hop a train and go anywhere you want."
"I would love to have that here, but noooo, we only have rail links between some major cities, and since I live in a more rural area, I have to drive four or more hours everywhere. In Europe, all I had to do was drive 20 minutes to a train station and then just chill on the train for a few hours. It was great!"
- SirTophamFat
Well-Balanced Work
"An American friend of ours was gobsmacked that I have a well-paid, head of department level job, don't work unpaid overtime, and get 33 days paid holiday a year, with eight days of public holiday on top."
- Major_Twain
Extensive Travel
"They can travel between different countries in Europe without spending days driving or flying."
- WhimsicalGrenade
"And without border controls or checkups! I can just sit in a car here in Germany and drive to France and all the other EU countries, just realizing I’m in another country because of the traffic signs."
"Once I sat in a Train and slept in, after like 30 minutes I woke up, got off the Train, and realized I’m in Enschede, Netherlands. (Living in NRW, so pretty close to the border). I was like Hm, okay, I've got 50€ in my pocket, so I decided to visit a coffee shop and walk a bit through the City until the next Train in the right direction arrived. Like I’d do in every other City while traveling by train."
- DisguisedAccount
Publicly Acceptable
"Being able to walk around town with a beer is awesome."
"Public transportation in non-huge cities is also awesome."
- ooo-ooo-oooyea
Bathroom Conditions
"Bathroom stalls that actually go to the floor. I don’t need to know what shoes the guy taking a s**t next to me has on."
- maxncheese67
"Don't forget the intentional gaps on the doors."
- jensbert
E. All of the Above.
"Healthcare. Life work balance. Walkable communities. Great train service."
- zunzarella
Legitimate Sick Days
"I recently read a post about an American residential doctor who couldn't afford to take a vacation because they had to spend it on sick days."
"Not going to lie, my brain short-circuited at that a bit. Was a doctor supposed to come sick to a hospital full of other sick people to avoid personal financial penalties?"
- HQMorganstern
Paid Parental Leave
"Paid parental leave. I had used all of my leave with my first kid, so when I had another kid a year and a half later, I was back on my feet teaching in under six weeks."
"Dogs get better treatment than working mothers."
- ElegantGoose
The Need of a Car
"Not having to use a car every single time that you leave your house... For a lot of people, you have to go drive somewhere to safely take a walk... This place can be a h**l, and it is numbing."
- _aelius
It's All About Perspective
"As a European, I'm amazed how you guys (Americans) are looking at certain things I consider basic needs as luxuries."
- FridgeParade
As the final Redditor pointed out, it's terrible to think that Americans see what others view as basic necessities as a luxury that they can only dream of having.
Nearly everyone has worked a job that they don't love.
Monotonous or soul-sucking as these jobs may be, people put up with them nonetheless, mainly because they need the money or to hold themselves over until a better job comes along.
In some cases, people find their new jobs so unbearable that they can't even wait to give their two weeks' notice.
Sometimes making their first day on the job their last... or even barely even make it through an hour of work before handing in their notice.
"People who quit their job on the spot, why?"
You Can't Fire Me, I Quit!
"I got fired from a pizza delivery job once and told I had to finish my shift on a Friday night."
"They said I was a no call no show the previous day."
"I wasn't scheduled."
"They wrote me in but didn't call me."
"The ink wasn't even the same color as the rest of the schedule."
"So when I showed up for work the next day they told me I was fired for no call no show, but I had to stay and work."
"I said f*ck that, and walked two doors over to the Chinese place and asked if they needed a delivery guy."
"Hired on the spot."
"Plus free egg rolls."- Artisanal_Sh*tposter
Young Ones Pizza GIF by YoungCapitalGiphySomething Tells Me He Didn't Get It...
"Not me but the weirdest one I have ever seen."
"I am the electronics guy at Walmart."
"One night they drop someone new on me."
"He had gone through all the onboarding and training videos and sh*t which takes a few days."
"They tell me to point him at something to do."
"I take him to the ink aisle and show him how to zone it."
"Put everything in order line it up against the edge of the shelf, sh*t like that."
"He says he's cool he gets it so I'm like great and walk away."
"Like not even 10 f*cking minutes later I go to see how he's doing and dude is f*cking gone."
"We never saw him again."- TimeTravelMishap
Pumpkin Fail GIFGiphyUnsafe Work Environment
"I had the owner of a restaurant I was managing spill literally boiling fresh made chicken noodle soup on my middle torso all the way down."
"So hot and painful to the point I had to strip my soaking boiling shoes."
"My reaction was to run and swear."
"He told me If I swore so vocally again he would let me go."
"I then needed medical attention, to which he refused."
"I went to the hospital anyway, came to work the next day with bandages, and was told I would work today's shift as repayment for missing my previous one."
"I explained that was illegal and gave him an ultimatum, either he fix it with him paying my medical bills or I walk."
"He laughed saying I had no control over it."
"So I walked."
"3 months later after filing suit, I supplied all the information needed to indict him on tax fraud, failure to properly insure, failure to maintain a safe work place, and he and his other businesses had to be sold for him to afford the legal costs, my medical bills and the mandatory restitution payments."
"Stupid b*tch is still paying me out, and now that he's fulfilled his sentenced time, lives in a relatively medium sized town and we frequent the same locations."
"I consistently remind him of what his next payment is owed and due."- Bigjerr2007
Chicken Soup GIFGiphyNot Part Of The Job Description...
"Quit a job on the first day."
"I was hired as an IT tech, however this company did not know what IT techs were."
"They thought 'IT does everything', including making sure their lights were replaced."
"I had one lady complain about me not changing her lightbulb fast enough because the burned out one shatterd on me and cut my hand open."
"I dropped the box of flourescents, shattering literally all of them, and walked out."
"Told my supervisor he needs to hire actual maintenance cause IT fixes computers."- TheLightningCount1
Passed Over For A Job They Were already Working!
"I walked away from a job in management once because they passed me up for a promotion for a role I was doing anyways due to it being vacant but needing to be done."
"When they passed me up I started looking."
"When they asked ME to train the guy who got it who was now my boss, I left."- SUTATSDOG·
Time Wasn't Valued
"Was brought in for a tryout shift and when I arrived I was told it wouldn't be paid since this was for them to see if they wanted to hire me and not the other way around."- picnic-boy·
Super Bowl Ok GIF by PepsiGiphyEnough Is Enough
"Large corporation kept 'downsizing' the workforce but not the workload."
"Those of us who were left (team of 15 reduced to 2) felt so lucky to have a job that we didn’t complain about taking on the jobs of three people and working 60+ hours per week."
"Company hires a new department head and a couple months later I have my annual review where he says 'we just need you to do more' to which I replied 'no'."
"No forethought."
"No plan."
"I just knew I couldn’t take on more."
"I definitely caught him off guard."
"And I couldn’t believe 'no' came out of my mouth."
"We were both stunned."
"But that was effectively my two week's notice."- NewUserNameIsDumb
Fed Up With Greed
"I was working as an engineer for a big corporation."
"I was supposed to get a promotion to senior engineer at the start of covid lockdowns, so they told me I wouldn’t get one because of covid."
"Fair enough."
"But a couple weeks later they told me our salaries would be reduced because the company wasn’t doing well."
"Not nice but nothing I could do."
"A couple months later, the company promoted two vice presidents to senior vice presidents, and gave them a huge bonus."
"I then asked for my promotion and they told me that no promotions would take place under Covid."
"I waited a few more months until they finally gave me my promotion."
"And the salary increase was £100 A YEAR."
"Which is much smaller than what my salary was reduced because of Covid."
"I took home the letter indicating I had a promotion, gave my notice and began looking for a senior engineer role somewhere else."
"F*ck greedy corporations."
"I forgot to mention that they removed all our bonuses during this time period, but management got it all."- AnheruKira
Tax The Rich Amazon GIF by INTO ACTIONGiphyIt's understandable to bear with a job you hate for the money.
But money can't buy back your dignity and self-worth.
If either of those are being threatened at your place of employment, it's probably time to move on.
People Break Down The Most Obvious Hints A Woman Was Interested In Them That They Missed
When meeting someone you're interested in, it's always best to avoid coming on too strong.
Doing so will likely not entice them to join you for a drink or coffee, but instead scare them away.
This is why it's always a good idea to subtly suggest your interest, by planting seeds and hints.
Of course, you don't want to be too subtle, as then your paramour might actually miss the fact you are interested in them, and move on to someone else.
Then too, some people have trouble taking the hint when it's practically staring them in the face.
"What's the most obvious hint a girl was interested in you but you missed all the signs?"
If She Wanted To "Study" She Would Have Stayed In The Living Room
"I was invited to her apartment to study on a Saturday night."
"After a little, she closed her door, we were on her bed."
"And we studied a little more until I left."- tryggvi747
Read Beauty And The Beast GIFGiphyBody Heat, Maybe?
"My now wife gives me sh*t about this all the time so it's safe to share here."
"Back when we were dating, it was a cold winter's night and she texted that she was cold and if there was anything I could do to warm her up."
"I offered to plastic seal her windows."
"Yeah I totally missed that pitch."- rcowie
Love And Basketball...
"I ran into a girl who I knew a little through some friends."
"We were talking and she randomly asked if I wanted to play one-on-one basketball with her that afternoon."
"I had nothing else to do, so I said yes."
"We walked to her place to pick up a ball and for her to get changed."
"In her room, she handed me the basketball and then started undressing."
"I excused myself outside the door while she changed."
"She then held conversation with me while she got dressed in my line of sight."
"Then she asked 'So do you want to go, or... ?'"
"And oblivious me said 'Yeah, sure, let's shoot some hoops'."
"In hindsight, there was a lot of one-sided flirting on the court and afterward she again invited me to her place to cool down."
"But I declined, as I was sweaty and I went home to shower."- elevenghosts
Sanaa Lathan Movie GIF by filmeditorGiphyWait For It...
"Looked up at me while clinging to my arm and stating, 'I could definitely see myself dating someone like you'."
"My brain was like, 'Neat! Maybe one day I'll find a girl who wants to go out with me after all!'"
"She continued this rather affectionate clinging for about a week, constantly holding on to my arm and making puppy dog eyes up at me."
"After that week, my friend asked her out and she accepted."
"They dated for two weeks before they discovered that they were blood-related first cousins."
"Then they continued dating for another week."- cascade_olympus
Good For Her For Being Confident?
"We had been hanging out for a bit and she was talking about how nice her t*ts were, she then follows it with 'maybe I should just show them to you'."
"'Oh no you don't need to do that!'"
"Luckily she really liked me and kept the press on for a few more weeks haha."
"We got married a few years later."- iamStanhousen
In Case You Wondered If It Really Impairs Your Judgement...
"My time to shine!"
"I was in college in the early 90's and sitting in my dorm room alone."
"I was high as hell."
"The hot girl down the hall that I had a crush on and spoke to occasionally came to my room and asked if I would watch her dance routine that was her final for her dance class."
"I was like 'sure' and went to her room."
"The room was dark except for some red lighting."
"I sat on the couch and she put on 'Enigma'."
"This was a VERY clear sign that I missed completely."
"She began her dance."
"She was in a unitard and I was totally hot for this girl."
"She did what I would now consider a personal lap dance for me."
"I was petrified with lust over the whole thing."
"When the song was over she came over to me, about 2 inches from my face sexy smiling and said, 'How was that?'"
"I looked at her and said, 'that was really cool, you'll do great', and left."
"I. LEFT."
"I walked back to my room and left."
"YEARS later I was driving my car to work, just daydreaming, like you do, and that memory popped up."
"I would have kicked myself had I been able to."- Luder714
Maybe She Would Have Been Better Off With 'Diego'?
"I was in a Starbucks in Argentina, and the girl taking my order asked my name to write on the cup."
"She didn't understand what I said, and when I picked the cup up, it said 'Diego', which isn't my name."
"Later that night I was chatting with a cute 20-something girl in the bar and I retold that story, and she looked at me with sultry eyes, her top slightly undone, and said something like 'what would Diego do with me tonight that <your name> wouldn't?'"
"It caught me completely off guard, and I said something stupid in return."
"It was like being in the final minutes of the Super Bowl, being tossed the game winning ball, only to fumble it in the end zone on live TV."
"I've lived with that regret a long time haha."
"What could have been."- tennyson77
They Got The Hint Eventually...
"Back in '84, I was working at this cool department store and this was this shy girl I'd chat it up with."
"I talk to anyone, so it was no big deal on my end."
"I was also a movie nut, so I'd say 'Hey, have you seen this or that?' and she'd give me an exasperated look and say 'No. No I haven't I need someone to go with'."
"I'd be like 'Ah, well, it's a good one'."
"We've been married for 33 years."- The68Guns
Nervous New Music GIF by *~ MIQUELA ~*GiphyThey Needed To Be More Into Themsleves!
"In high school a gorgeous girl sent me anonymous love letters."
"I later found out she was the one sending them."
"She also asked me out to this dinner banquet thing."
"We went, but I was so shy I barely said anything."
"She still sent me letters afterwards."
"I had really low self esteem, and made every excuse to myself that she wasn't into me."
"It was like she was holding up a neon sign that she likes me and i didn't do anything about it."- uncultured_swine2099
"Years ago, just chatting with a co-worker day to day, just everyday conversation."
"Then one day, after another normal chit chat passing time casual conversation, she heads out, turns around grabs a pen and she writes her number on my arm and says 'Dude! Call me!'."
"And walked away seemingly frustrated."
"I just kinda stood there with eyebrows raised, my brain turning gears and it clicked!"
"...Oooohh!"- nukomyx
A Joke About Rubbing Organs Is Just Too Obvious...
"As I played the organ, she would turn pages for me and brush her body against my back while moving from right to left behind the organ bench to grab the next page."
"I thought she was rubbing me due to tight quarters between my organ and the choir loft railing."- Back2Bach
Take Me Out To The Ballgame Baseball GIF by NCAA ChampionshipsGiphyIt's easy to kick yourself in the head for missing what might seem like obvious cues that someone was into you.
Though it's really nothing to be embarrassed about, as subtlety is lost on some.
Then too, it's worth mentioning that maybe the reason you missed the cues, is that you weren't into them?
All's fair in love and seduction...
We all have those friends who do extremely well for themselves. They're rich, and they know it... and everyone else knows it too.
They go on expensive vacations and buy the latest and greatest in technology. They want for nothing and always seem to have the means to go out or buy something on a whim.
However, we may also know someone who can do all of those things but doesn't. These are the people who are just as wealthy as those who flaunt their money (maybe even wealthier) but are subtle about it.
They live modest lives, rarely, if ever, talk about money, and never make it obvious they have money.
Sometimes, they even try to do the opposite -- make it seem like they are middle class.
However, no matter how hard they try, there are few subtle, but tell-tale, signs that they are rich.
Redditors are revealing what those signs are.
It all started when Redditor ues1bredevasked:
"What's a non-obvious sign someone is rich?"
Travel Light
"They don’t have luggage when taking a flight."
"So many wealthy people have multiple homes with separate wardrobes at each. To just jump on a plane with no carry on bags must be a dream lol"
– Just-My-Pinion
This Is Off The Rack, I Promise
"They wear very nice clothing without any brand identification."
– BobbyB90220
"this is kind of funny. I knew someone whose family was new rich and he would go to lengths to buy brands that he could remove the brand tags because he didn’t want people to know what brands he wore."
– Pochusaurus
Money Talks, People Don't
"Most of the time, they will stay quiet about money, but never balk when presented with a bill"
"They will be very selective in those they choose to be friends with, for various legal reasons."
– veleriphon
"I had a close friend and I never realized he was from a wealthy family until he died. He told me that his father and brother lived in another state and ran a moving company, so I pictured a two guys and a truck type of company. When I looked up his father to send condolences after my friend's death, I learned that the company operated out of multiple states and is worth millions."
– haloarh
In A Rich Kid's World
"I went to high school with the offspring of millionaires and billionaires and something that I always noticed was how close sibling groups are. It's because they exist in the same space in life, they understand what that means, and they don't have to worry about each others intentions (unless they plan to Macbeth each other)."
"But then also, if you manage to become friends with someone then you kind of get absorbed by the whole sibling group. They're all kinda like "well ok, clearly he's ok.""
– throwawaysmetoo
Basic Human Kindness
"In my experience as a waiter in a fine dining establishment, they treat you like a normal f*cking human."
"Not sure if my boss coined the term, but a "100k millionaire" will treat you like you're just "the help" and make you feel like less of a person..."
– ImNotAFatKid
Ivy League Brain?
"Went to a good university but is kind of dumb"
– BjornBeetleBorg
"I went to private prep schools all my life. I'm doing this just to see what people say. But in reality, first hand, this is so unbelievably accurate I can't even tell you. I did a paper for my economics class in college about how wealth plays into elite university admissions."
"And first hand, I've seen many friends go Ivy who wouldn't even get into state schools based on test scores"
– ues1bredev
Stuff Or No Stuff?
"Minimalist homes. I don't know why...but rich people like the simple aesthetic which honestly doesn't feel homey. They'd rather live with very few things."
– Inevitable_snow_gal
"It is because they can go buy anything they need, so no need to have anything on hand in the home."
– Helicopter0
"I don't get this, if I was rich I'd have so many fun things in my house like fancy lamps and sh*t"
– ism659
"When you have several houses and probably a house sized yacht you have to spread your stuff around"
– SigmaBallsLol
"Part of this is just a lack of clutter because they have ample hidden storage."
– AltaDK
Only On TV
"If they wear a monocle and a top hat?"
– More-Escape3704
"And when shocked they drop their monocle and say "well I never!""
– Chromattix
That's The Dream
"They're too young to be retired, yet they don't seem to go to work"
– Mental_Task9156
"That is telltale."
"Retired early. So, you are correct, don’t work. But truthfully we just work at different things now. We work on the house. We actually DO a lot of it ourselves. We work on growing the money for our children and grandchildren. We think of it as “family money” and treat it as such. We have helped our adult children when they truly need it. We don’t squander. We worked too hard for it."
– Alarming_Honey5015
Stealth Mode
"Real generational wealth keeps an extremely low profile."
"They have no digital footprint. They actually pay people to keep information about them off the internet, and out of any publications."
"They will keep a low profile, driving cars that blend in. Nice, reliable vehicles, but nothing too flashy."
– fifercurator
I Won't Talk About It
"They are quiet when the discussion is about cost of living pressures, and will deflect the questions from themselves and/or nudge the conversation into a different direction"
– hdhdhdhdzjursx
"This works both sides, depending on "who's in the circle"... Poorer/Richer than the group sign"
– Cautious_Bicycle_494
"I do this for the exact opposite reason though"
– Domhausen
Opening Nuts
"Doesn't bother with the pistachios that are hard to open."
– altheasman
"That’s where the true wealth shines."
"Pre-shelled pistachios."
– FILTER_OUT_T_D
Experience The World
"Casually having expensive hobbies. Stuff like sailing, skiing, and golfing. Especially in areas where those activities aren’t as accessible and if they’ve been doing it for a long time. You live in the Midwest but you’ve been surfing since you were 10? Probably rich."
– belowthemask42
Don't Touch The Readable Artwork!
"I used to have a running buddy who was very rich. For me, the non-obvious sign were the books on his bookcase. They weren't books to be read. They were investments. He told me once that if somebody tried to rob his place, they might go for the big TV, but they should go for the bookshelf."
– rueguard
Honestly, those would be what I'd buy if I was rich!
Do you have any telltale signs we should be on the lookout for? Let us know in the comment below.